Ramayana vs mang odoy: Trinitas meniru paganisme.

First topic message reminder :

ane kelupaan di trit mana, tapi mang odoy bilang trinitas niru jaman pagan.
bahkan kisah hindu. benarkah? mari di lanjut dimari.

mohon mang odoy kasih link trit yang asli. tx

Ya emang kaya gitu....Romawi punya kisah sendiri tentang Mithra, kemudian sosok ini DIADOPSI oleh Kristen. Seperti dilansir oleh situs berikut ini..


http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

2. Paul and Mithraism

“St. Paul is attributed with the writing of 13 books in the Bible, 7 by himself and 6 by others in his name. He was born in Tarsus as "Saul" and adopted the Christian name of Paul after converting to what is now "Christianity". He was an early leader of the growing Christian churches around the Roman Empire, and the writings of St. Paul are the earliest existing Christian writings known to historians.”

Santo Paulus dikenal sebagai penulis dari 13 Kiab di Bible, 7 diantaranya ditulis sendiri,dan 6 lainnya ditulis oleh orang lain atas nama dia. Dia lahir di Tarsus dengan nama SAUL dan mengadopsi Nama Kristen PAUL setelah masuk agama yang dikenal sekarang dengan nama KRisten. Dia adalah pemimpin awal dari perkembangan gereja kristen disekitar kekaisaran Romawi, dan tulisan tulisan santo Paulus adalah yang paling awal ada yang diketahui sejarah.

"St Paul - History, Biblical Epistles, Gnosticism and Mithraism" by Vexen Crabtree (1999)

He mixed the Hellenic Christ theme with the Messiah theme of Judaism, and the result was the theology around the sacrificial nature that the Christ of Christianity has.

Dia mencampur tema Mesias Hellenisme dengan tema mesiah dari Judaisme, dan hasilnya adalah teologi sekitar pengorbanan Kristus dalam ke Kristenan.

“Paul mistook the Jewish "Messiah" to mean the Hellenistic "Christ". This happened before anything was written down; it happened during Paul's conversations with people as he was working through what had happened. A messiah is a person who is a great leader who leads your people to freedom. The title was taken by Jews from Persian culture. A christ is a god-king who dies as an offering to some divine being as a sacrifice in return for prosperity, especially agricultural prosperity. Both are anointed with oil as a mystical, sexual rite.”

Christos (site down) or Jesus didn't exist (site down)

"Paulus MENGIRA bahwa Messias nya Yahudi berarti Mesias nya Hellenisme. Hal ini terjadi sebelum segala sesuatunya dituangkan dalam bentuk tulisan, hal ini terjadi selama percakapannya dengan orang orang ketika dia meneliti apa yang terjadi. Seorang Mesias adalah seseorang yang mana dia adalah seoarang Pemimpin Agung yang akan memimpin kalian kedalam kebebasan. Gelar tersebut diambil oleh orang Yahudi dari kebudayaan Persia. Seorang Mesias adalah seorang Raja yang baik yang mati sebagai tuhan yang menjelma menjadi mahluk dalam rangka pengorbanan untuk kemakmuran,khususnya kemakmuran dalam bidang pertanian. Keduanya (Mesiah - Christ) diurapi oleh minyak sebagai ritual mistik atow sexual.

“It was in Tarsus that the Mysteries of Mithras had originated, so it would have been unthinkable that Paul would have been unaware of the remarkable similarities we have already explored between Christian doctrines and the teachings of Mithraism. [Footnote:] Tarsus was the capital of Cilicia, where, according to Plutarch [46-125CE], the Mithraic Mysteries were being practiced as early as 67BCE”

Di kota Tarsuslah Misteri misteri tentang Dewa Mithra berasal, jadi tidak masuk akal kalow Paulus tidak menyadari akan kesamaan-kesamaan yang begitu luar biasa yang telah kami ekplor antara doktrin doktrin Kristen dengan Ajaran dari Mitaraisme .
[Catatan] : Kota Tarsus adalah ibukota dari Cilicia, dimana, menurut Plutarch (46-125 sebelum Masehi), misteri misteri Dewa Mithra telah dipraktekkan disana pada awal tahun 67 sebelum masehi.

"The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy (1999) [Book Review]

Kalo gak pecaya...baca lagi dah kitab kitab si Paulus di PB, banyak doktrin doktrin yang dia orbitkan yang mirip dengan Mitraisme.

mang.. udah ane tunjukkan kebohongan kisah pagan ente. hal yg ditarik romawi maksimal adalah tanggal 25 desember.
itu bukan kelahiran asli. kita sepakat itu adalah kisah romawi!
lha kristen punya dasar sendiri akan tanggal 25 desember ini. salahnya dimana??? ada dasar kok dianggap niru pagan!

kemudian dari sumber ente..
kisah 12 murid mithras.. palsu!
anak perawan.. palsu!!

dimana nyonteknya??? adakah hal dari kisah Yesus yang nyontek?? yang mana??
kok ampe paulus segala??? ini ane bicara kisah Yesus!

dari kelahiran yang ente bilang niru tgl pagan aja terbukti ngawur.

Dan hasil GUBAHAN ROMAWI ini dipake oleh KRISTEN..... ini artinya KRISTEN pake barang bekas, udah palsu, butek.....kan gak ada mendingnya...ner gak..???

Noo liat..... si SAUL dari TARSUS lah orang yang bekerja keras agar supaya anda dan teman gereja anda menikmati IMAN SEMU seperti sekarang ini...

mang ente katanya kuli di luar.. tapi kelakuan masih aja ndeso! gantle dikit napa?

dimana pakai barang bekasnya???? dimana palsunya???
kalau kisah Yesus palsu.. tentu kisah Isa adalah palsu!

ente pakai referensi ngawur! mana kresna lahir dari perawan.. referensi ngawur terus di ubah bahas paulus! ga mutu ente mang!!

Nah...itu nyadar...kisah kacow balow inilah yang dipake si SAUL dari TARSUS untuk meracik agama baru, gabungan Judaisme dengan Paganisme (Persia vs Yunani) untuk membuat suatu agama yang menjamin KESELAMATAN bagi pemeluknya. 2 doktrin yang berasal dari Judaisme dan Paganisme telah diraciksedemikan rupa sehingga menjadi fondasi keimanan yang anda yakini sekarang ini.

inilah kalau ga bisa mikir. udah tau terjemahannya??

==Anahita is sometimes regarded as the consort of Mithra===
tolong di terjemahkan mang!! bandingkan ama sumber ente... hahahahahahaha..
katanya anahita ibu perawan dari mithra..

REFERENSI yang mana...???
Suatu referensi adalah KUAT dan VALID kalow hanya ada SATU SUMBER...seperti yang telah anda posting sendiri, bahwa tentang penentuan hari kelahiran Yesus pun ada 2 ARGUMEN...dan si penulis sendiri akhirnya hanya bisa pasrah dengan berkata seperti ini..

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html

ane bilang tanggal 25 desember ada dasarnya!! lha link yg ane kasih itu referensi atau ga?
ente tau apa itu definisi referensi????


Definisi 'referensi'

noun

1. 1 sumber acuan (rujukan, petunjuk): kamus dapat dipakai sbg bahan --; 2 buku-buku yg dianjurkan oleh dosen kpd mahasiswanya untuk dibaca: buku wajib dan buku -- tersedia lengkap di perpustakaan; 3 buku perpustakaan yg tidak boleh dibawa ke luar, harus dibaca di tempat yg telah disediakan; 4 Ling hubungan antara referen dan lambang (bentuk bahasa) yg dipakai untuk mewakilinya

dimana ada referensi itu harus 1 sumber?? kelahiran mohamad juga ada 2 pendapat. isra miraj juga ada 2 pendapat. kisah pengorbanan anak ibrahim juga ada 2 pendapat! dan masing masing punya dasar referensi sendiri.

ingat mang.. agama sendiri lebih kacau! hahahaha.. tetapi kan bukan ini yang jadi semangat suatu agama. tetapi ajaran agama itu sendiri dimana bisa membuat pengikutnya punya kehidupan yang benar dan baik. termasuk hubungan antara sesama manusia dan manusia dengan Tuhan.

jadi tgl 25 desember itu Kristen ada dasarnya. bukan nyontek apalagi niru. kalau nyontek dan niru tentu ga ada dasarnya.

seperti misal.. kenapa mitras lahir tanggal 25 desember.. ada referensinya?

Itu kan versi penulis yang ngadopsi dari sumberlain....sumber lain yang saya punya berbicara kaya gini..

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristianity.html

The Catholic Encyclopedia as well as the early Church Fathers found this religion of Mithras very disturbing, as there are so many similarities between the two religions, as follows:

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

Dan yang ini pula...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fuzzypeg/Mithraism_and_Christianity

Key similarities

Mithras was born from a virgin on December 25, a date later co-opted by Christians as Christ's birthday in 320 AD. A traveling teacher and master, Mithras also performed miracles. He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras died for man’s sins and was resurrected on the following Sunday. The crucifix, water baptism and the breaking of bread and wine are also shared by both religions.[1]

Yang ini jugaaa...

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/atlantean_conspiracy/atlantean_conspiracy44.htm

There are actually in total 15 preChristian Gods had traits and stories exactly like Jesus Christ. For example, In 900 BC Krishna was born of a virgin with a star in the East signaling his coming. A tyrant slaughtered thousands of infants trying to kill the new born king. He was a teacher in the temple and a healer who performed miracles, was crucified between two thieves and resurrected from death. Around the same time period in Greece lived the God Attis, born of a virgin on December 25th .

He was martyred on a crucifix, died for 3 days and was resurrected.

Mithra was a Persian God circa 1200 BC who was born of a virgin on December 25th, traveled around with 12 disciples, performed miracles, died for 3 days and was resurrected. He was called the truth, the light, and was worshipped on Sunday.

The very same basic storyline that came out of Constantine’s Council of Nicea in 325 AD already existed for thousands of years.

“Christianity resembled certain elements of Roman belief, particularly the worship of Mithra, or Mithraism. As ‘Protector of the Empire,’ Mithra was closely tied to the sun gods, Helios and Apollo. Mithra's birthday on December 25, close to the winter solstice, became Jesus's birthday. Shepherds were to have witnessed Mithra's birth and were to have partaken in a last supper with Mithra before he returned to heaven. Mithra's ascension, correlating to the sun's return to prominence around the spring equinox, became the Christian holiday of Easter.

Jangan khawatir....informasi tentang KE PAGANAN KRISTEN...melimpah ruah akan saya sajikan dimari....ha ha ha ha ha....

link ente muter muter selalu salah!!

ini ane kasih dari link ente..

KRISHNA - INDIA: Krishna was born while his foster-father Nanda was in the city to pay his tax to the king. His nativity heralded by a star, Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki in a cave, which at the time of his birth was miraculously illuminated. The cow-herds adored his birth. King Kansa sought the life of the Indian Christ by ordering the massacre of all male children born during the same night at He. Krishna traveled widely, performing miracles -- raising the dead, healing lepers, the deaf and the blind. The crucified Krishna is pictured on the cross with arms extended. Pierced by an arrow while hanging on the cross, Krishna died, but descended into Hell from which He rose again on the third day and ascended into Heaven. (The Gospel of Nicodemus tell of Jesus' descent into Hell.) He will return on the last day to judge the quick and the dead. Krishna is the second person of the Hindu trinity.

kebodohan yang sangat!! ente boleh bawa semua kisah pagan!! dan semakin menunjukkan kebodohan!

sejak kapan kresna di salib??? sejak kapan wanita yg udah punya 7 anak sebelumnya masih perawan?? iki sing guoooblok sopo mang??

ini dari situs india..


That website you've given as a link cannot be trusted as it is run by someone who likes to cause trouble with controversial 'ideas'. Plus the book where the french writer tried to make out that Krishna was crucified cannot be trusted either as we already know westeners come up with some weird ideas when they try to research or 'analyse' Hinduism through western eyes. Crucifiction was never a big thing in India, but it was among the Semites, Romans, Arabs, etc.

I must say this is the first time ever, I've heard of something quite as absurd as this, it seems the French writer was trying to equate Krishna with Christ...referring to him as Cristna.

http://www.indiadivine.org/showthread.php?t=23238

orang hindu india tentu lebih tau hahahahaha..

baru dengar krisna mati disalib!

ini lagi.. dari link wiki ente..

Mithras had no mother, but was miraculously born of a rock, or the petra genetix

dimana katanya lahir dari perawan?? hahahahaha..

dari link ente

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

link ente saling bertentangan. lahir dari batu dan ga punya ibu.. kok ada 3 orang bijak datang.. guoobluok kan??
udah dikasih tau semua link ente kacau balau.. masih aja dipakai.. malah mau ditambah hahahahahaha..

dan lagi.. kisah Yesus adalah kejadian sebenarnya. bagaimana mungkin dibandingkan ama mitos? bagaimana mungkin kisahnya dianggap nyontek? apa kisah Yesus dari perawan itu kisah pagan? lalu gimana kisah Isa? Kalau Yesus pagan, maka Isa adalah pagan!! karena muslim mengaku Yesus adalah Isa.
ini bukan OOT. melainkan cara berpikir.

satu lagi.. dimana ada ada hal ini..

The Catholic Encyclopedia as well as the early Church Fathers found this religion of Mithras very disturbing, as there are so many similarities between the two religions, as follows:

ane cari di Catholic Encyclopedia ga ada persamaan seperti link ente!!! jelas ini fitnah!!
bawa kemari kalau ada di Catholic Encyclopedia!!

Lhaa emang dibaca...lha emang mikir...yang nulis artikel tersebut adalah seorang Kristen taat yang berusah mati matian mempertahankan KEIMANAN KRISTEN nya dari terpaan bukti bukti sejarah bahwa KRISTEN=MITRAISME.

ane kasian ama ente mang.. berusaha pakai persamaan ama mithra, malah link ente saling bertentangan.. eh, hoax lagi!
hahahahahahaha..

Mau kibul atow betul....yang jelas ROMAWI sudah LEBIH DULU mempopulerkan sosok Dewa Mithra ini, dan sudah LEBIH DULU memuja dan menyembahnya.

Kemudian...datanglah si SAUL dari Kota TARSUS yang menjadi PUSAT MITRAISME.....dicampurnya dengan ajarana Judaisme, pake bumbu sedikit dengan campuran HELLENISME YUNANI....jadilah agama yang ada di KTP anda sekarang ini...ner gakk..???

apa hubungannya ama paulus??? ini kan Injil!
dan lagi, mana bukti kalau mithra emang sama kisahnya ama Yesus. semua link ente udah terbukti hoax dan ngawur!!

Petunjuk dari hongking...????? fakta dari Cina...???

Baca lagi komentar dari penulis kristen dari link yang anda sodorkan sendiri....

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html

"The Catholic Church (in 336 AD) declared december 25th (on the Julian Calender) to be Yeshua's birthday in order to replace a Pagan Roman Holiday, Saturnalia.
Ironically, December 25th was a celebration ot the birthday of the sun god. The early church , in attempt to ged rid of the pagan holiday, declared December 25th to be the birthday of the son of god."

Kalo kurang...nih ta kasih tambahan....

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

5. Sunday as the Day of Worship, and December 25th

“In 313 A.D., Emperor Constantine declared December 25th to be the birthday of Jesus (December 25th was prescribed earlier as the birthday of Mithra, by emperor Aurelian). Sabbath day, which is literally Saturday (as the Jews still maintain), became Sunday as it was the day of the Sun, another element from the Mithra worship.”

www.geocities.com/raqta24/christ.htm

“It may be mentioned here that the Greeks celebrated the birthday of their sun-god Apollo at the winter solstice. Another important point is the fact that the Christian Church abandoned the Jewish sabbath (contrary to the commandment of their God) in favour of the Mithraic day of the sun.”

"Jesus Versus Christianity" by Alfred Reynolds (1993)

diulang lagi.. capek deh.
ente udah lihat kan.. ada argumentasi dan referensinya?? masalahnya dimana kalau itu 25 desember? kan ada dasarnya!! bukan niru!! ente mikir sedikit ga bisa????

Cape yaa.....???? quote sekaligus, ngebales cuman SMS...???

http://withalliamgod.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/refuting-mithras-myth-parallelism-to-christianity/

Refuting Mithras Virgin Birth

They are two accounts of Mithras birth, the Persian’s and the Roman’s account of his birth. In Roman’s account, Mithras is born as an adult out of a rock in a cave:

Mithraic Studies, Mithras, “wearing his Phrygian cap, issues forth from the rocky mass. As yet only his bare torso is visible. In each hand he raises aloft a lighted torch and, as an unusual detail, red flames shoot out all around him from the petra genetrix.” Franz Cumon, “The Dura Mithraeum” in John R. Hinnells (ed.), Mithraic Studies: Proceedings of the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies (Manchester University Press, 1975), 173.

Also Manfred Clauss, German Professor for Ancient History in The Roman Cult of Mithras, writes:

“The literary sources here are few but unmistakable: Mithras was known as the rock-born god. The inscriptions confirm this nomenclature: one even reads D(eo) O(omipotenti) S(oli) Invi(cto), Deo Genitori, r(upe) n(ato), ‘To the almighty God Sun invincible, generative god, born from the rock’….Mithras also appears in the archaeological record as the rock-born god. Many images represent the god growing out of a rock with both arms raised aloft….After the bull-slaying, the rock-birth is the most frequently represented event of the myth, either as a detail on reliefs or, quite commonly, as a free-standing image.” (Clauss, The Roman Cult of Mithras, page 62-63)

Thus unless the rocky mass is a human and virgin, and a fully grown Mithra is a baby, it quite deceptive to claim that this is a Virgin birth.

In Persian’s account of Mithras birth, some argue, was born of Anahita, a goddess that is portrayed as a virgin, dressed in a golden cloak, and wearing a diamond tiara. But this is unlikely because Anahita was sometimes regarded as the consort of Mithra( Encyclopedia Mythica)

G. Widengren, scholar of Iranian myth, argues:

“According to the “legend” of the mysteries Mithras was born from a rock, petra genetrix giving life to him. He is therefore de petra natus… We also know that Mithra was born on the shore of the river Araxes, Ps. Plutarch, De fluviis 23 par. 4 (where, however, a confusion is found in so far as this story is attributed to a son of Mithras), that his father hated women and therefore threw his sperm on a rock which afterwards was pregnant. These details are not as the great pioneer in Mithraic studies [Franz Cumont]assumed “de pure fantaisie”, on the contrary they are part of a birth myth attested among the Ossetians in Caucasus and have already in the Hurrian “Epic of Kumarbi” an unmistakable association. The localization of this scene of Mithra’s birth to the shore of the Araxes in Armenia confirms our presumption that north-western Iran and Armenia was the homeland of Mithraic mysteries. Also the shepherds who are seen on Mithraic reliefs in connection with the birth-scene possess their correspondence in Ossetic tales and Iranian salvation legends, and indicate likewise a north-western origin of the stories about Mithra’s birth”¹

Cerita tentang Mithra emang ada 2 versi....Persia dan Romawi.....dari kedua versi inilah...Kristen telah MENG ADOPSI.

Informasi akan terus mengalir....tenang aja....

sekarang jadi 2 versi hahahahahaha!!
ente pakai yang mana? yang dari batu atau yang perawan? emang payah ente mang!!

ngalor ngidul bilang mithra dari perawan kayak fitnah ente.. sekarang ngaku ada versi lain.

nih ane juga punya referensi.

Anahita was very popular and is one of the forms of the 'Great Goddess' which appears in many ancient eastern religions (such as the Syrian/Phoenician goddess Anath). She is associated with rivers and lakes, as the waters of birth. Anahita is sometimes regarded as the consort of Mithra

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/anahita.html

anahita disebut pendamping/permaisuri dari mithra bukan ibu mithra. hahahahaha..

mang.. ente kemana? kok bisa teriak teriak di sebelah?

pakai mithraisme lagi.. hahahahaha..

ramayana wrote:mang.. ente kemana? kok bisa teriak teriak di sebelah?

pakai mithraisme lagi.. hahahahaha..

ha ha ha ...kesenengan ni yee dicuekin bentar....wkkwkkwkwk..

ya dah..kembang kempis dulu dah tu idungnya.....ane lagi asyik ngegebugin si nduss...

tar ane balik lagi kemari......

giliran dong...atu atu yaa....dah berjibaku lagi dikapal nih...jadi waktu terbatas...sabar aja ya sayang....tar kene gebog lagi sama mang odoy...

mang odoy wrote:

ramayana wrote:mang.. ente kemana? kok bisa teriak teriak di sebelah?

pakai mithraisme lagi.. hahahahaha..

ha ha ha ...kesenengan ni yee dicuekin bentar....wkkwkkwkwk..

ya dah..kembang kempis dulu dah tu idungnya.....ane lagi asyik ngegebugin si nduss...

tar ane balik lagi kemari......

giliran dong...atu atu yaa....dah berjibaku lagi dikapal nih...jadi waktu terbatas...sabar aja ya sayang....tar kene gebog lagi sama mang odoy...

hahahahaha.. ane sih tau kualitas ente mang.. ente ga balas juga ane ga masalah.
ane undang ente krn ternyata ente pakai kisah mithras ngawur ente di trit sebelah!

udah jelas ngawur.. masih koar koar di tempat lain. malu mang...

@atas

nyantei aja bro...kasih saya kesempatan dan waktu...okeh..???
Ini masalah adu wawasan kok...masalah IMAN...saya samasekali gak peduli dengan keimanan anda...100% terserah anda...sekali lagi, kita hanya adu wawasan disini...
Kalo anda sabar, saya ucapin makasih, tapi kalo masih terus koar koar, ya terserah...yang jelas, selama nyawa masih ada dibadan saya, nickname "mang odoy" bakal terus nongol di forum ini...

mang odoy wrote:@atas

nyantei aja bro...kasih saya kesempatan dan waktu...okeh..???
Ini masalah adu wawasan kok...masalah IMAN...saya samasekali gak peduli dengan keimanan anda...100% terserah anda...sekali lagi, kita hanya adu wawasan disini...
Kalo anda sabar, saya ucapin makasih, tapi kalo masih terus koar koar, ya terserah...yang jelas, selama nyawa masih ada dibadan saya, nickname "mang odoy" bakal terus nongol di forum ini...

mang! ente emang ga tau malu!! urusan mitrhas bin pagan ente aja hancur hancuran dan hoax!! malah koar koar kesana kemari!

buktikan dulu disini!!

ane kira ente butuh waktu buat cari data dan wawasan kyk kata ente.. eh malah koar koar di trit lain masalah pagan ini!!

bener bener ga tau malu ente mang!! pantaslah ente jadi kuli..

@ramayana

mang odoy wrote:
Ya emang kaya gitu....Romawi punya kisah sendiri tentang Mithra, kemudian sosok ini DIADOPSI oleh Kristen. Seperti dilansir oleh situs berikut ini..


http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

2. Paul and Mithraism

“St. Paul is attributed with the writing of 13 books in the Bible, 7 by himself and 6 by others in his name. He was born in Tarsus as "Saul" and adopted the Christian name of Paul after converting to what is now "Christianity". He was an early leader of the growing Christian churches around the Roman Empire, and the writings of St. Paul are the earliest existing Christian writings known to historians.”

Santo Paulus dikenal sebagai penulis dari 13 Kiab di Bible, 7 diantaranya ditulis sendiri,dan 6 lainnya ditulis oleh orang lain atas nama dia. Dia lahir di Tarsus dengan nama SAUL dan mengadopsi Nama Kristen PAUL setelah masuk agama yang dikenal sekarang dengan nama KRisten. Dia adalah pemimpin awal dari perkembangan gereja kristen disekitar kekaisaran Romawi, dan tulisan tulisan santo Paulus adalah yang paling awal ada yang diketahui sejarah.

"St Paul - History, Biblical Epistles, Gnosticism and Mithraism" by Vexen Crabtree (1999)

He mixed the Hellenic Christ theme with the Messiah theme of Judaism, and the result was the theology around the sacrificial nature that the Christ of Christianity has.

Dia mencampur tema Mesias Hellenisme dengan tema mesiah dari Judaisme, dan hasilnya adalah teologi sekitar pengorbanan Kristus dalam ke Kristenan.

“Paul mistook the Jewish "Messiah" to mean the Hellenistic "Christ". This happened before anything was written down; it happened during Paul's conversations with people as he was working through what had happened. A messiah is a person who is a great leader who leads your people to freedom. The title was taken by Jews from Persian culture. A christ is a god-king who dies as an offering to some divine being as a sacrifice in return for prosperity, especially agricultural prosperity. Both are anointed with oil as a mystical, sexual rite.”

Christos (site down) or Jesus didn't exist (site down)

"Paulus MENGIRA bahwa Messias nya Yahudi berarti Mesias nya Hellenisme. Hal ini terjadi sebelum segala sesuatunya dituangkan dalam bentuk tulisan, hal ini terjadi selama percakapannya dengan orang orang ketika dia meneliti apa yang terjadi. Seorang Mesias adalah seseorang yang mana dia adalah seoarang Pemimpin Agung yang akan memimpin kalian kedalam kebebasan. Gelar tersebut diambil oleh orang Yahudi dari kebudayaan Persia. Seorang Mesias adalah seorang Raja yang baik yang mati sebagai tuhan yang menjelma menjadi mahluk dalam rangka pengorbanan untuk kemakmuran,khususnya kemakmuran dalam bidang pertanian. Keduanya (Mesiah - Christ) diurapi oleh minyak sebagai ritual mistik atow sexual.

“It was in Tarsus that the Mysteries of Mithras had originated, so it would have been unthinkable that Paul would have been unaware of the remarkable similarities we have already explored between Christian doctrines and the teachings of Mithraism. [Footnote:] Tarsus was the capital of Cilicia, where, according to Plutarch [46-125CE], the Mithraic Mysteries were being practiced as early as 67BCE”

Di kota Tarsuslah Misteri misteri tentang Dewa Mithra berasal, jadi tidak masuk akal kalow Paulus tidak menyadari akan kesamaan-kesamaan yang begitu luar biasa yang telah kami ekplor antara doktrin doktrin Kristen dengan Ajaran dari Mitaraisme .
[Catatan] : Kota Tarsus adalah ibukota dari Cilicia, dimana, menurut Plutarch (46-125 sebelum Masehi), misteri misteri Dewa Mithra telah dipraktekkan disana pada awal tahun 67 sebelum masehi.

"The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy (1999) [Book Review]

Kalo gak pecaya...baca lagi dah kitab kitab si Paulus di PB, banyak doktrin doktrin yang dia orbitkan yang mirip dengan Mitraisme.

mang.. udah ane tunjukkan kebohongan kisah pagan ente. hal yg ditarik romawi maksimal adalah tanggal 25 desember.itu bukan kelahiran asli. kita sepakat itu adalah kisah romawi!

Lhaa emang kenyataaannya kaya gitu...Romawi sudah duluan MENGKULTUSKAN sosok Dewa Mithra dengan gelar SOL INVICTUS nya, dan mereka menetapkan bahwa kelahiran sang dewa ini adalah 25 Desember. Kalo anda tanya dasarnya, kenapa Romawi menentukan tanggal kelahiran dewa mereka pada tanggal 25 Desember, ya itu adalah pertanyaan yang gak masuk akal, secara pengikut MITRAISM pada jaman Romawi sudah gak ada yang hidup lagi dijaman sekarang. Yang ada adalah PENERUS dari MITRAISME sendiri yaitu KRISTEN.

Bukti bukti sejarah ini sudah jelas..bahwa :

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Priority: Mithraism or Christianity?

"Regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first."

Nevertheless, the god Mithra was revered for centuries prior to the Christian era, and the germane elements of Mithraism are known to have preceded Christianity by hundreds to thousands of years.

Thus, regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first, well established in the West decades before Christianity had any significant influence.


http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Mithra in the Roman Empire

According to the Roman historian Plutarch (c. 46-120 AD/CE), Mithraism began to be absorbed by the Romans during Pompey's military campaign against Cilician pirates around 70 BCE. The religion eventually migrated from Asia Minor through the soldiers, many of whom had been citizens of the region, into Rome and the far reaches of the Empire. Syrian merchants brought Mithraism to the major cities, such as Alexandria, Rome and Carthage, while captives carried it to the countryside. By the third century AD/CE Mithraism and its mysteries permeated the Roman Empire and extended from India to Scotland, with abundant monuments in numerous countries amounting to over 420 Mithraic sites so far discovered.

Menurut ahli sejarah Romawi,Plutarch (c. 46-120 Masehi), Agama penyembah dewa Mithra mulai diserap oleh Romawi selama pergerakan militer Pompey melawan para Pembajak Sicilia sekitar taun 70 sebelum Masehi. Agama tersebut pada akhirnya berimigrasi dari Asia Minor melalui para serdadu, yang mana banyak dari mereka menjadi Penduduk setempat, masuk ke Roma dan meluas ke seantora kekaisaran. Kaum pedagang Syria membawa agama Mithra ini ke kota kota besar seperti Alexandria, Roma dan Cartagena, sementara itu para tawanan membawa agama tersebut ke kampung kampung pinggiran. Menjelang/pada abad ke-3 Masehi, agama Mitra dan misterimisterinya menyebar keseluruh pelosok Kekaisaran ROmawi dan bertambah dari India ke Skonlandia, sejauh ini telah ditemukan monument monument di banyak negara dengan jumlah yang sangat banyak, sekitar lebih dari 420 situs situs penyembahan dewa Mithra.

Artinya...Dewa Mithra sudah NGETREND DULUAN, sebelum kelahiran Yesus...dan pananggalan yang mereka buat pun, atas dasar penanggalan kalender JULIAN yang kemudian, lagi lagi, DIADOPSI KRISTEN untuk menetapkan penanggalan kalender Masehi. Dalam bahasa Inggris penanggalan ini disebut "Anno Domini" / AD (dari bahasa Latin yang berarti "Tahun Tuhan kita") atau Common Era / CE (Era Umum) untuk era Masehi, dan "Before Christ" / BC (sebelum [kelahiran] Kristus) atau Before Common Era / BCE (Sebelum Era Umum).



http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masehi

Kalender Masehi adalah kalender yang mulai digunakan oleh umat Kristen awal. Mereka berusaha menetapkan tahun kelahiran Yesus atau Isa sebagai tahun permulaan (tahun 1). Namun untuk penghitungan tanggal dan bulan mereka mengambil kalender bangsa Romawi yang disebut kalender Julian (yang tidak akurat) yang telah dipakai sejak 45 SM, mereka hanya menetapkan tahun 1 untuk permulaan era ini. Perhitungan tanggal dan bulan pada Kalender Julian lalu disempurnakan lagi pada tahun pada tahun 1582 menjadi kalender Gregorian. Penanggalan ini kemudian digunakan secara luas di dunia untuk mempermudah komunikasi.


Jadi..kalow anda coba mengelak dan melontarkan tuduhan bahwa....MITRAISME MENCONTEK KRISTEN...itu sama sekali tidak berdasar.
Punya bukti...??? kalow Dewa Mitra mulai ngetrend setelah KE KRISTENAN berdiri...???

lha kristen punya dasar sendiri akan tanggal 25 desember ini. salahnya dimana??? ada dasar kok dianggap niru pagan!

Dasar darimana...??? mulai kapan tepatnya Kristen menetapkan bahwa Kelahiran Yesus pada tanggal 25 Desember...????
Karena data yang diperoleh dan dari sumber kekristenan sendiri adalah seperti ini...

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html


"The Catholic Church (in 336 AD) declared december 25th (on the Julian Calender) to be Yeshua's birthday in order to replace a Pagan Roman Holiday, Saturnalia.
Ironically, December 25th was a celebration ot the birthday of the sun god. The early church , in attempt to ged rid of the pagan holiday, declared December 25th to be the birthday of the son of god."


http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html


5. Sunday as the Day of Worship, and December 25th

“In 313 A.D., Emperor Constantine declared December 25th to be the birthday of Jesus (December 25th was prescribed earlier as the birthday of Mithra, by emperor Aurelian). Sabbath day, which is literally Saturday (as the Jews still maintain), became Sunday as it was the day of the Sun, another element from the Mithra worship.”

Jadi...dasar apa yang anda pegang, bahwa Kelahiran Yesus TEPAT pada tanggal 25 Desember.....???
Atow anda mau berkilah bahwa ini hanyalah masalah PENETAPAN....?? dengan dalih bahwa ada sebagian Kristen merayakan Natal pada tanggal 6 Januari...???

Tanggal 6 Januari pun.....lagi lagi adalah PERAYAAN PAGAN....
http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html


As with Jesus, December 25th and January 6th are both traditional birth dates in the Dionysian myth and simply represent the period of the winter solstice. Indeed, the winter-solstice date of the Greek sun and wine god Dionysus was originally recognized in early January but was eventually placed on December 25th, as related by ancient Latin writer Macrobius (c. 400 AD/CE). Regardless, the effect is the same: The winter sun god is born around this time, when the shortest day of the year begins to become longer.

Tanggal 25 Desember...adalah TANGGAL LAHIR TOKOH PAGAN selain Dewa Mithra...dan Baachus....yaitu ATTIS..!!

http://www.truthbeknown.com/attis.html

December 25th

The "December 25th" or winter-solstice birth of the sun god is a common theme in several cultures around the world over the past millennia, including the Egyptian, among others. As it is for the Perso-Roman god Mithra, the Egyptian god Horus and the Christian godman Jesus, this date has likewise been claimed for Attis's nativity as well. For example, Barbara G. Walker (77) writes:

Attis's passion was celebrated on the 25th of March, exactly nine months before the solstitial festival of his birth, the 25th of December. The time of his death was also the time of his conception, or re-conception.




Jadii....kapan TEPATnya perayaan Natal tanggal 25 Desember sebagai kelahiran Yesus mulai diperingati..??

http://www.truthbeknown.com/first-christmas.html


The tradition of "Christmas" or December 25th as the birth of Jesus Christ, the main figure of the New Testament who is believed by nearly two billion Christians worldwide to have been God in the flesh come to save mankind from its sins, is traceable to the late second to third century AD/CE. During that time, the Church father Cyprian (d. 258) remarked (De pasch. Comp., xix): "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born...Christ should be born." In other words, the Savior's birth was being observed at the winter soltice. What is seldom known, however, is that prior to that time, Christ's birth was placed on a variety of days, indicating its non-historicity:

January 5th, January 6th, March 25th, March 28th, April 19th, April 20th, May 20th, August 21st, November 17th and November 19th.



December 25th as Christ's birthday makes its way into a "calendar" or chronology created in 354 AD/CE called the Calendar of Filocalus or Philocalian Calendar. In addition to listing the 25th of December as the Natalis Invicti, which means "Birth of the Unconquered (Sun)," the Calendar also names the day as that of natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae: "Birth of Christ in Bethlehem Judea." Hence, we can see that people of the fourth century were clearly aware of the association, if not identification, of Christ with the sun, as they had been in Cyprian's time and earlier, since Jesus is claimed to be the "Sun of Righteousness" in the Old Testament book of Malachi (4:2).

ramayana wrote:

kemudian dari sumber ente..
kisah 12 murid mithras.. palsu!
anak perawan.. palsu!!

12 Murid Dewa Mithras

http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/articles/mithraism_influence_on_christianity.php

Mitra had twelve supporters and these became Christ's apostles. When repairing old churches around the world including those in Germany, France and Russia there have been numerous signs of Mithraism. Christianity was influenced by variety of traditions and rituals of Mithraism and became the leader of European civilization.

12 Zodiac yang mengelilingi Dewa Mithra ini yang dianggap sebagai COMPANION/PENGIKUT.


Mithra Anak Perawan

Pan udah dijelasin...proses kelahiran Mithra ini ada 2 versi, lahir dari Perawan dan dari batu, kaya itik keluar dari telurnya....
Yang jelas...Tokoh Pagan yang lahir dari Perawan emang sudah ada sebelum Ke Kristenan Lahir.
Adalah sebuah ujian....ketika Nabi Isa/Yesus lahir dari seoarang Perawan Mary/Maria/Maryam....moment inilah yang menjadi TITIK TOLAK FITNAH yang dialami oleh Nabi Isa/Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth ini, dengan berpijak pada kelahiran ajaib ini, maka atribut atribut TOKOH PAGAN yang sudah ngetrend ratusan bahkan ribuan tahun sebelum kelahirannya, ikut disematkan pada sosok NABI MULIA ini.

@ramayana

dimana nyonteknya??? adakah hal dari kisah Yesus yang nyontek?? yang mana??
kok ampe paulus segala??? ini ane bicara kisah Yesus!

Yupp...jelas NYONTEK....si Paulus yang emang JAGO dala mengkaji PERJANJIAN LAMA, dengan lihainya mencomot ayat ayat Perjanjian Lama SINGKRON dengan ajaran MITRAISME dan HELLNISME yang dia anut, maka tersajilah agama Kristen, hasil kolaborasi PAGANISME di jaman si Paulus hidup.

Ini akan kita bahas belakangan...

@ramayana

mang odoy wrote:
Dan hasil GUBAHAN ROMAWI ini dipake oleh KRISTEN..... ini artinya KRISTEN pake barang bekas, udah palsu, butek.....kan gak ada mendingnya...ner gak..???

Noo liat..... si SAUL dari TARSUS lah orang yang bekerja keras agar supaya anda dan teman gereja anda menikmati IMAN SEMU seperti sekarang ini...

dimana pakai barang bekasnya???? dimana palsunya???
kalau kisah Yesus palsu.. tentu kisah Isa adalah palsu!

Barang bekas, karena semua kepercayaan dan doktrin Kristen ini dipake oleh PAGANISME jaman dulu. Ini artinya KRISTEN HANYALAH TUNAS BARU DARI PAGANISME.
Palsunya...karena doktrin Kristen hasil racikan si Paulus yang notabene berpijak pada Perjanjian Lama pun banyak yang JEBLOK, ayat2 Perjanjian Lam dipake untuk mencocok cocokan dengan doktrin Mitraisme dan Hellenisme.

Maka datanglah Islam dengan Quran nya....mengklarifikasi kisah yang sesungguhnya dari diri Nabi Isa/Nabi Yesus ini.... Quran menjelaskan bagaimana yang sesunngguhnya. Quran jelas MEMBANTAH HABIS HABISAN atribut atribut PAGANISME yang telah disematkan ke diri Nabi Isa/nabi Yesus ini.

@ramayana

ente pakai referensi ngawur! mana kresna lahir dari perawan.. referensi ngawur terus di ubah bahas paulus! ga mutu ente mang!!

Lhaa emang......segala data data tentang ke PAGAN an Kristen ini akan kita liat, betapa semuanya SINGKRON dengan doktrin doktrin si SAUL dari kota TARSUS....yang dengan lihainya mengatas namakan PROPHECY/NUBUAT dari ayat ayat Perjanjian Lama....
Secara pribadi saya akui...kalow si SAUL dari kota TARSUS ini emang GENIUS..... genius tukang tepu...

mang odoy wrote:

Lhaa emang kenyataaannya kaya gitu...Romawi sudah duluan MENGKULTUSKAN sosok Dewa Mithra dengan gelar SOL INVICTUS nya, dan mereka menetapkan bahwa kelahiran sang dewa ini adalah 25 Desember. Kalo anda tanya dasarnya, kenapa Romawi menentukan tanggal kelahiran dewa mereka pada tanggal 25 Desember, ya itu adalah pertanyaan yang gak masuk akal, secara pengikut MITRAISM pada jaman Romawi sudah gak ada yang hidup lagi dijaman sekarang. Yang ada adalah PENERUS dari MITRAISME sendiri yaitu KRISTEN.

Bukti bukti sejarah ini sudah jelas..bahwa :

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Priority: Mithraism or Christianity?

"Regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first."

Nevertheless, the god Mithra was revered for centuries prior to the Christian era, and the germane elements of Mithraism are known to have preceded Christianity by hundreds to thousands of years.

Thus, regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first, well established in the West decades before Christianity had any significant influence.


http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Mithra in the Roman Empire

According to the Roman historian Plutarch (c. 46-120 AD/CE), Mithraism began to be absorbed by the Romans during Pompey's military campaign against Cilician pirates around 70 BCE. The religion eventually migrated from Asia Minor through the soldiers, many of whom had been citizens of the region, into Rome and the far reaches of the Empire. Syrian merchants brought Mithraism to the major cities, such as Alexandria, Rome and Carthage, while captives carried it to the countryside. By the third century AD/CE Mithraism and its mysteries permeated the Roman Empire and extended from India to Scotland, with abundant monuments in numerous countries amounting to over 420 Mithraic sites so far discovered.

Menurut ahli sejarah Romawi,Plutarch (c. 46-120 Masehi), Agama penyembah dewa Mithra mulai diserap oleh Romawi selama pergerakan militer Pompey melawan para Pembajak Sicilia sekitar taun 70 sebelum Masehi. Agama tersebut pada akhirnya berimigrasi dari Asia Minor melalui para serdadu, yang mana banyak dari mereka menjadi Penduduk setempat, masuk ke Roma dan meluas ke seantora kekaisaran. Kaum pedagang Syria membawa agama Mithra ini ke kota kota besar seperti Alexandria, Roma dan Cartagena, sementara itu para tawanan membawa agama tersebut ke kampung kampung pinggiran. Menjelang/pada abad ke-3 Masehi, agama Mitra dan misterimisterinya menyebar keseluruh pelosok Kekaisaran ROmawi dan bertambah dari India ke Skonlandia, sejauh ini telah ditemukan monument monument di banyak negara dengan jumlah yang sangat banyak, sekitar lebih dari 420 situs situs penyembahan dewa Mithra.

Artinya...Dewa Mithra sudah NGETREND DULUAN, sebelum kelahiran Yesus...dan pananggalan yang mereka buat pun, atas dasar penanggalan kalender JULIAN yang kemudian, lagi lagi, DIADOPSI KRISTEN untuk menetapkan penanggalan kalender Masehi. Dalam bahasa Inggris penanggalan ini disebut "Anno Domini" / AD (dari bahasa Latin yang berarti "Tahun Tuhan kita") atau Common Era / CE (Era Umum) untuk era Masehi, dan "Before Christ" / BC (sebelum [kelahiran] Kristus) atau Before Common Era / BCE (Sebelum Era Umum).



http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masehi

Kalender Masehi adalah kalender yang mulai digunakan oleh umat Kristen awal. Mereka berusaha menetapkan tahun kelahiran Yesus atau Isa sebagai tahun permulaan (tahun 1). Namun untuk penghitungan tanggal dan bulan mereka mengambil kalender bangsa Romawi yang disebut kalender Julian (yang tidak akurat) yang telah dipakai sejak 45 SM, mereka hanya menetapkan tahun 1 untuk permulaan era ini. Perhitungan tanggal dan bulan pada Kalender Julian lalu disempurnakan lagi pada tahun pada tahun 1582 menjadi kalender Gregorian. Penanggalan ini kemudian digunakan secara luas di dunia untuk mempermudah komunikasi.


Jadi..kalow anda coba mengelak dan melontarkan tuduhan bahwa....MITRAISME MENCONTEK KRISTEN...itu sama sekali tidak berdasar.
Punya bukti...??? kalow Dewa Mitra mulai ngetrend setelah KE KRISTENAN berdiri...???

lha kristen punya dasar sendiri akan tanggal 25 desember ini. salahnya dimana??? ada dasar kok dianggap niru pagan!

Dasar darimana...??? mulai kapan tepatnya Kristen menetapkan bahwa Kelahiran Yesus pada tanggal 25 Desember...????
Karena data yang diperoleh dan dari sumber kekristenan sendiri adalah seperti ini...

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html


"The Catholic Church (in 336 AD) declared december 25th (on the Julian Calender) to be Yeshua's birthday in order to replace a Pagan Roman Holiday, Saturnalia.
Ironically, December 25th was a celebration ot the birthday of the sun god. The early church , in attempt to ged rid of the pagan holiday, declared December 25th to be the birthday of the son of god."


http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html


5. Sunday as the Day of Worship, and December 25th

“In 313 A.D., Emperor Constantine declared December 25th to be the birthday of Jesus (December 25th was prescribed earlier as the birthday of Mithra, by emperor Aurelian). Sabbath day, which is literally Saturday (as the Jews still maintain), became Sunday as it was the day of the Sun, another element from the Mithra worship.”

Jadi...dasar apa yang anda pegang, bahwa Kelahiran Yesus TEPAT pada tanggal 25 Desember.....???
Atow anda mau berkilah bahwa ini hanyalah masalah PENETAPAN....?? dengan dalih bahwa ada sebagian Kristen merayakan Natal pada tanggal 6 Januari...???

Tanggal 6 Januari pun.....lagi lagi adalah PERAYAAN PAGAN....
http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html


As with Jesus, December 25th and January 6th are both traditional birth dates in the Dionysian myth and simply represent the period of the winter solstice. Indeed, the winter-solstice date of the Greek sun and wine god Dionysus was originally recognized in early January but was eventually placed on December 25th, as related by ancient Latin writer Macrobius (c. 400 AD/CE). Regardless, the effect is the same: The winter sun god is born around this time, when the shortest day of the year begins to become longer.

Tanggal 25 Desember...adalah TANGGAL LAHIR TOKOH PAGAN selain Dewa Mithra...dan Baachus....yaitu ATTIS..!!

http://www.truthbeknown.com/attis.html

December 25th

The "December 25th" or winter-solstice birth of the sun god is a common theme in several cultures around the world over the past millennia, including the Egyptian, among others. As it is for the Perso-Roman god Mithra, the Egyptian god Horus and the Christian godman Jesus, this date has likewise been claimed for Attis's nativity as well. For example, Barbara G. Walker (77) writes:

Attis's passion was celebrated on the 25th of March, exactly nine months before the solstitial festival of his birth, the 25th of December. The time of his death was also the time of his conception, or re-conception.




Jadii....kapan TEPATnya perayaan Natal tanggal 25 Desember sebagai kelahiran Yesus mulai diperingati..??

http://www.truthbeknown.com/first-christmas.html


The tradition of "Christmas" or December 25th as the birth of Jesus Christ, the main figure of the New Testament who is believed by nearly two billion Christians worldwide to have been God in the flesh come to save mankind from its sins, is traceable to the late second to third century AD/CE. During that time, the Church father Cyprian (d. 258) remarked (De pasch. Comp., xix): "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born...Christ should be born." In other words, the Savior's birth was being observed at the winter soltice. What is seldom known, however, is that prior to that time, Christ's birth was placed on a variety of days, indicating its non-historicity:

January 5th, January 6th, March 25th, March 28th, April 19th, April 20th, May 20th, August 21st, November 17th and November 19th.



December 25th as Christ's birthday makes its way into a "calendar" or chronology created in 354 AD/CE called the Calendar of Filocalus or Philocalian Calendar. In addition to listing the 25th of December as the Natalis Invicti, which means "Birth of the Unconquered (Sun)," the Calendar also names the day as that of natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae: "Birth of Christ in Bethlehem Judea." Hence, we can see that people of the fourth century were clearly aware of the association, if not identification, of Christ with the sun, as they had been in Cyprian's time and earlier, since Jesus is claimed to be the "Sun of Righteousness" in the Old Testament book of Malachi (4:2).

ramayana wrote:

kemudian dari sumber ente..
kisah 12 murid mithras.. palsu!
anak perawan.. palsu!!

12 Murid Dewa Mithras

http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/articles/mithraism_influence_on_christianity.php

Mitra had twelve supporters and these became Christ's apostles. When repairing old churches around the world including those in Germany, France and Russia there have been numerous signs of Mithraism. Christianity was influenced by variety of traditions and rituals of Mithraism and became the leader of European civilization.

12 Zodiac yang mengelilingi Dewa Mithra ini yang dianggap sebagai COMPANION/PENGIKUT.


Mithra Anak Perawan

Pan udah dijelasin...proses kelahiran Mithra ini ada 2 versi, lahir dari Perawan dan dari batu, kaya itik keluar dari telurnya....
Yang jelas...Tokoh Pagan yang lahir dari Perawan emang sudah ada sebelum Ke Kristenan Lahir.
Adalah sebuah ujian....ketika Nabi Isa/Yesus lahir dari seoarang Perawan Mary/Maria/Maryam....moment inilah yang menjadi TITIK TOLAK FITNAH yang dialami oleh Nabi Isa/Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth ini, dengan berpijak pada kelahiran ajaib ini, maka atribut atribut TOKOH PAGAN yang sudah ngetrend ratusan bahkan ribuan tahun sebelum kelahirannya, ikut disematkan pada sosok NABI MULIA ini.

mengenai tgl 25 desember.. ini kan udah ane kasih dasarnya! di kristen ada dasarnya bukan nyontek! apalagi sol invictus itu udah ada jauh sebelum mithras! dan mithras ini kemudian di tarik ke tanggal 25 desember!

Kristen ada dasar, mithras ga ada. hanya di taruh ama romawi di tanggal itu!

Invictus ("Unconquered, Invincible") was an epithet for several deities of classical Roman religion, including the supreme deity Jupiter, the war god Mars, Hercules, Apollo and Silvanus.[7] Invictus was in use from the 3rd century BC,[8] and was well-established as a cult title when applied to Mithras from the 2nd century onwards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

mulai abad ke berapa mang?? abad ke 2!!
Injil udah ada apa belum mang?? sudah ada!!

gimana mungkin perhitunagn natal yang udah ada sejak sebelum mitrhas ada kemudian di tuduh palsu?
kalaupun tgl 25 ditetapkan setelah mitras, itu tidak bisa dikatakan niru sebab dasar penetapan atau perhitungan tgl 25 udah ada sejak sebelum mitras.

ane udah kasih link kalau awal kekristenan itu, agama mitras adalah rival! ente tau arti rival? lawan! gimana mungkin rival kok malah contek menyontek! apalagi yang di contek itu apa??

awalnya sol invictus bukan mithras

Sol was the solar deity in Ancient Roman religion. It was long thought that Rome actually had two different, consecutive sun gods. The first, Sol Indiges, was thought to have been unimportant, disappearing altogether at an early period. Only in the late Roman Empire, scholars argued, did solar cult re-appear with the arrival in Rome of the Syrian Sol Invictus, perhaps under the influence of the Mithraic mysteries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_(mythology)#Sol_Invictus

hanya di akhir romawi baru diganti ama mithras!

jadi siapa yg nyontek? mitras melanjutkan dewa matahari romawi kuno. dan kisah Yesus ada dasarnya!

mengenai murid mithars. ente ini gendeng ya!

sejak kapan ada mithras punya murid? zodiac itu dari yunani kisah zeus! ga ada hub ama mitras!

sedang murid Yesus jumlah 12 adalah kenyataan. buka rekaan kayak kisah murud mitras ini hahahahaaha..

apalagi jumlah 12 ini sama ama suku Israel!! gile bener.. kisah Yesus punya 12 murid itu udah ada sebelum mitras di lantik jadi dewa matahari romawi!

ingat bro. mtras mungkin udah disebut jadi dewa.. tetapi resminya jadi dewa matahari adalah abad ke 2!

masalah perawan.. ente kalau anggap mitras dari perawan.. itu siapa? siapa nama ibunya?? udah dikasih link masih aja ngawur!

kalau ente pakai mitras romawi, maka itu dari batu!!

tidak ada kisah perawan sebelumnya.. dari semua yg ente sebut dan beri link.. ternyata tidak ada yg perawan! krisna? hahahahahah

@ramayana

mengenai tgl 25 desember.. ini kan udah ane kasih dasarnya! di kristen ada dasarnya bukan nyontek! apalagi sol invictus itu udah ada jauh sebelum mithras! dan mithras ini kemudian di tarik ke tanggal 25 desember!

Kristen ada dasar, mithras ga ada. hanya di taruh ama romawi di tanggal itu!

Invictus ("Unconquered, Invincible") was an epithet for several deities of classical Roman religion, including the supreme deity Jupiter, the war god Mars, Hercules, Apollo and Silvanus.[7] Invictus was in use from the 3rd century BC,[8] and was well-established as a cult title when applied to Mithras from the 2nd century onwards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

Nahhh...ituuu nemu sendiri... jadi emang ROMAWI duluan yang mempopulerkan tanggal 25 DESEMBER sebagai kelahiran dewanya kan...????

Mengenai dasar Kristen dalam penetapan, sperti link yang anda bawa yang ini...
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html

Bahwa ..:

Argument for a Tishri (Sukkot) Birth...There ara several reason to believe that Yeshua/Yesus was born during the Fall, in particular, during the festival of Sukkot (Tabernacles). Among the reason cited are as follow :

1. Yeshua's cousin, John the Baptist, was concieved in mid Sivan (May-June) and born 40 weeks later on Nisan, the Passover.

Berarti...John the Baptist dilahirkan kurang lebih bulan April (kalo dimulai dari bulan Juni sesuai keterangan diatas.

2. Yeshua was conceive in late Kislev (nov/des) and born 40 weeks later during sukkot.

Berarti...Yesus dilahirkan kurang lebih pada bulan Oktober akhir (kalo dimulai dari Desember sesuai perhitungan diatas.

Dasar dari Bible sesuai link diatas pula...

a. Yeshua was conceived six months aftar John the Baptist (Luke 1:24-27 ; 36)

Yesus mulai dikandung 6 bulan setelah John the Baptist dinyatakan positif ada di rahim ibunya Elisabeth.. dinyatakan dalam Lukas 1:24-27 dan ayat 36.

Jadi jelas, menurut argumen tersebut, Yesus lahir kira kira AHIR BULAN OKTOBER. Saya sangat setuju sekali dengan pendapat ini karena emang sesuai dengan keterangan di Quran bahwa ketika Nabi Isa/yesus ini dilahirkan, buah korma sedang matang matangnya, sehingga dengan sekali hentakkan, buah korma akan jatuh berguguran karena emang buah korma kalow sudah matang benar, jangankan dihentakkan batangnya, mereka akan jatuh dengan sendirinya. Bukan itu pula, saya sudah menyaksikan dengan mata kepala sendiri, ketika kemarin saya jalan jalan ke Giza (Mesir) dan itu pas bulan Oktober minggu ke-3 sepanjang jalan menuju ke kompleks Piramid, banyak melalui kebun korma, dan emang saat itu, semua pohon korma telah berbuah lebat dengan warna buah rata rata merah menyala. Pun begitu juga ketika saya ikut tur ke Tempat Pembaptisan Yesus di ujung Danau Tiberias, disekitar tempat pembaptisan, tepatnya di pinggir sungai Jordan, banyak terdapat pohon korma, dan berbuah sama seperti halnya pohon korma di daerah Giza-Mesir.

Nah..itu alasan saya mengapa saya pegang pendapat bahwa YESUS LAHIR PADA MUSIM GUGUR (Oktober).

Kalow anda berpegang pada pendapat yang ini...
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html
Argument for a late Desember

Silahkan bawa data dari link tersebut dan bawa kemari....biar kita bahas bareng bareng...

Karena yang menjadi PENEKANAN dalam masalah ini, kelahiran Yesus telah sedemikian rupa dimanipulasi oleh Gereja supaya cocok dengan KELAHIRAN TOKOH PAGAN, dalam rangka urusan Politik pada jaman Kaisar Constantine yang notabenen menjadi SPONSOR UTAMA dalam pembentukan dan pengesahan agama yang bernama KRISTEN ini.

KELAHIRAN PADA WAKTU WINTER/SOLTICE inilah yang dipermasalahkan, karena WINTER/SOLTICE secara data membuktikan bahwa TOKOH TOKOH PAGAN sebelum kelahiran Yesus dilahirkan pada waktu ini. Dan karena pendirian agama Kristen disponsori kuat oleh CONSTANTINE, maka aroma politik lebih kental dalam hal ini. Constantine ingin agar Mitraisme dan Christianity disatukan dalam satu wadah untuk terciptanya persatuan dan kesatuan, ironisnya, atribut atribut MITRASIME sedikit demi sedikit disematkan ke sosok Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth.

@ramayana

mulai abad ke berapa mang?? abad ke 2!!
Injil udah ada apa belum mang?? sudah ada!!

INJIL yang mana kang rama...??? apakah Bible seperti sekarang ini...????
Mana datanya kalow Gereja sudah MENETAPKAN TANGGAL KELAHIRAN YESUS pada jaman awal ke kristenan..???

gimana mungkin perhitunagn natal yang udah ada sejak sebelum mitrhas ada kemudian di tuduh palsu?

iyaaa...mana buktinya bahwa PENETAPAN TANGGAL 25 DESEMBER sebagai hari lahir Yesus sudah ada pada jaman awal ke kristenan..???

kalaupun tgl 25 ditetapkan setelah mitras, itu tidak bisa dikatakan niru sebab dasar penetapan atau perhitungan tgl 25 udah ada sejak sebelum mitras.

Pada jaman sebelum Yesus...terbukti tanggal 25 DESEMBER sudah kadong ngetrend sbagai DIES NATALIS SOL INVICTUS (hari kelahiran dewa matahari).....

Terus...mana PERHITUNGAN TEPAT nya sehingga tanggal 25 Desember ditetapkan sebagai kelahiran Yesus, dana mana bukti di Bible kalow Yesus lahir pada MUSIM DINGING...????

Kalow saya pegang pendapat bahwa Yesus lahir pada MUSIM GUGUR, ini masih ada bukti di bible, dimana para gembala ketika mendenger kabbar dari Malaikat bahwa Yesus lahir sedang menggembalakan kambingnya pada malam hari. Mungkinkah pada MUSIM DINGIN para koboy tersebut malah gembalain kambing di malam hari...??? Musim dingin daerah Eropa lho mass...lain sama musim hujan di Jakarta....

@ramayana

ane udah kasih link kalau awal kekristenan itu, agama mitras adalah rival! ente tau arti rival? lawan! gimana mungkin rival kok malah contek menyontek! apalagi yang di contek itu apa??

Dan MITRAISME sudah lebih duluan memegang CREED/KREDO/AKIDAH seperti yang dikenal Kristen sekarang ini. Kalow Mitraisme sudah duluan....ya terus harus dikatakan apalagi kalo bukan KRISTEN yang MENCONTEK...???

awalnya sol invictus bukan mithras

Sol was the solar deity in Ancient Roman religion. It was long thought that Rome actually had two different, consecutive sun gods. The first, Sol Indiges, was thought to have been unimportant, disappearing altogether at an early period. Only in the late Roman Empire, scholars argued, did solar cult re-appear with the arrival in Rome of the Syrian Sol Invictus, perhaps under the influence of the Mithraic mysteries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_(mythology)#Sol_Invictus

hanya di akhir romawi baru diganti ama mithras!

jadi siapa yg nyontek? mitras melanjutkan dewa matahari romawi kuno.

Kalow Mitras MELANJUTKAN kisah Dewa Matahari Kuno....terus KRISTEN niru siapa..???? KREDO KREDO/KEYAKINAN/AKIDAH yang dipegang Kristen kok banyak kesamaannya dengan MITRAISME...???

dan kisah Yesus ada dasarnya!

Kasih contoh dong kalo emang PUNYA DASAR....
Masalah tanggal lahir.....dan yang lainnya...jangan bisanya cuman ngomellll azzaaaa...kaya ibu ibu kurang duit belanja...hi hi hi...

@ramayana

mengenai murid mithars. ente ini gendeng ya!

sejak kapan ada mithras punya murid? zodiac itu dari yunani kisah zeus! ga ada hub ama mitras!

Coba baca dan lihat gambar dil link ini..

http://arthuride.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/12-apostles-constellations-numerology-theology-in-the-worlds-religions-quest-to-understand-origins-a-study-of-textual-criticism-translation-interpretation-and-linguistics/

Mithras and his 12 Apostles (signs of the Zodiac)

The followers of the God Mithras, who was born out of a rock/stone (petras:

Mithras born from the rock (petra genetrix), Marble, 180-192 AD. From the area of S. Stefano Rotondo, Rome.
πέτρα; cp. Matthew 16:18) that was to be the basis of faith as detailed in decorations and graffitti, including many Roman emperors such as Constantine, believed that the crucified Mithras was their eternal saviour who would transport them to a heavenly realm while having his message sent to all people of all nations by 12 disciples. The same story is the foundation for what would become the faith of Christians who also believe that their saviour, in most ways identical to Mithras and with the Mithraist religion, had 12 disciples.

Ancient religions used the number 12, believing, as Pythagoras argued, that it was a god-given gift to mortals and had divine properties and a profound mystical meaning. This was because it is one of the lowest easily divisible numbers, unlike other numbers it has several dividing factors: 6, 4, 3, and 2. Since 12 was the lowest easily divisible number, it was used to prepare calendars and time pieces (clocks) that were used for and with astronomy (star-gazing, star charting, and that ultimately led to astrology—the study that assumes and attempts to interpret the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs—and the believe in a mystical heaven that was centered between the stars and composed of 12 constellations).

Jadi...angka 12 ini emang sudah jadi angka mistik dari jaman baheula,...

sedang murid Yesus jumlah 12 adalah kenyataan. buka rekaan kayak kisah murud mitras ini hahahahaaha..

Katanya.....kata Bible yang sekarang beredar dan disahkan Gereja...
Murid Yesus sebenernya lebih dari 12 kalo emang mau jujur ngitung...tapi karena itu tadi...angka 12 emang sudah jadi angka sakti dikalangan PAGANISME jauh sebelum kelahiran Yesus.


[/quote]apalagi jumlah 12 ini sama ama suku Israel!! gile bener.. kisah Yesus punya 12 murid itu udah ada sebelum mitras di lantik jadi dewa matahari romawi!

ingat bro. mtras mungkin udah disebut jadi dewa.. tetapi resminya jadi dewa matahari adalah abad ke 2! [/quote]

Masalah KAPAN dimulainya pengkultusan Mithra sebagai Dewa, masih banyak diperdebatkan, ini wajar sajah, karena Gereja di jaman sekarang pun tidak ingin ditinggalkan kambing-kambingnya gara gara terbukti bahwa Kristen mencontek Mitraisme...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries#Plutarch

Classical literature about Mithras and the Mysteries

PlutarchThe Greek biographer Plutarch (46 - 127 AD) says that "secret mysteries... of Mithras" were practiced by the pirates of Cilicia, the coastal province in the southeast of Anatolia, who were active in the 1st century BC: "They likewise offered strange sacrifices; those of Olympus I mean; and they celebrated certain secret mysteries, among which those of Mithras continue to this day, being originally instituted by them."[130] He mentions that the pirates were especially active during the Mithridatic wars (between the Roman Republic and King Mithridates VI of Pontus) in which they supported the king.[130] The association between Mithridates and the pirates is also mentioned by the ancient historian Appian.[131] The 4th century commentary on Vergil by Servius says that Pompey settled some of these pirates in Calabria in southern Italy.[132]

Sumber Klasik hasil tulisan PLUTARCH menyebutkan bahwa Pengkultusan Dewa Mithra oleh Romawi telah dimulai SEBELUM MASEHI...!!

masalah perawan.. ente kalau anggap mitras dari perawan.. itu siapa? siapa nama ibunya?? udah dikasih link masih aja ngawur!

Ada 2 versi....ini tidak lepas dari usaha Gereja untuk melindungi kambing kambingnya....karena MITHRA hanyalah di adopsi ROMAWI yang emang saat itu sudah ada JUDAISME dengan Kitab Perjanjian Lamanya.....salah satu sumber menyebutkan bahwa KELAHIRAN MITRA DARI BATU, mirip dengan Nubuat Nabi Daniel.

Jadi panjang kan ceritanya..??? hi hi hi..

Sudah dibilang.......CREDO/AKIDAH KRISTEN ini dapat mungut dari mana mana.....PAGANISME INDIA-PERSIA-YUNANI-MESIR-ROMAWI"...

Ini baru masalah KELAHIRAN....masalah lain akan terus mengalir di tret ini..bahwa CREDO/AKIDAH KRISTEN dapet mungut dari berbagai sumber.

kalau ente pakai mitras romawi, maka itu dari batu!!

tidak ada kisah perawan sebelumnya.. dari semua yg ente sebut dan beri link.. ternyata tidak ada yg perawan! krisna? hahahahahah

nyantei ajaaa....PESTA BELUM BERAKHIR...!!
Kecuali kalo "mang odoy" dah masuk kuburan....

mang.. ente nulis panjang panjang itu ujungnya kemana? kok malah mbulet ga karuan?

ane nanya deh.

Apa yg ente maksud kalau akidah kristen itu nyontek pagan? akidah mana saja?

silahkan di list. ga usah semua. yang ente anggap paling pagan aja! biar ane gebuk ente langsung di intinya hehehehe..

sekarang ini ente mbulet kemana mana. ane bahas yg mana??

ane kasih tau ya mang.. link entehttp://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm itu udah ane buktikan banyak ngawurnya. ente bawa bawa terus apa ente ga malu?

masalah tanggal 25 december.. juga ada ortodox yang rayakan tanggal 6 januari. masalahnya dimana?

kalau ga mungkin 25 desember krn bersalju..

ada yg ngitung suhu saat Yesus lahir tgl 25 desember tahun 5 BC.

According to Bethlehem municipality site (http://www.bethlehem-city.org/index-6.php?Mid=MTAz, quoted in 2011 & 2012), average temperatures of Bethlehem range from 9-18° C in winter. Bethlehem receives an average of 7 hours of sunshine a day during the winter. Meanwhile, computation by software Millennia Calendar software version 2.0.0, the sun shone as long as 10 hours on December 25, 5 BC (Julian calendar) from the rising of the sun at 6:43 to its setting at 16:46.

http://natal25desember.com/bethlehem-temperature-on-christmas-day-december-25/

membeku ya? bersalju? hahahahaahaha...

ramayana wrote:mang.. ente nulis panjang panjang itu ujungnya kemana? kok malah mbulet ga karuan?

ane nanya deh.

Apa yg ente maksud kalau akidah kristen itu nyontek pagan? akidah mana saja?

silahkan di list. ga usah semua. yang ente anggap paling pagan aja! biar ane gebuk ente langsung di intinya hehehehe..

ha ha ha ha..boleh lah KOAR KOARNYA...hiks hiks hiks..
nyantei aja....SEMUA CREDO/AKIDAH/DOKTRIN KRISTEN yang nyomot dari Partai Persatuan Paganisme akan saya JEPLAKIN.
Gak usah buru buru...alon alon asal kelakon....gak usah diminta pun...emang mau saya kupas abis dimari...mumpung posisi saya di tret ini adalah TAMU YANG DITANTANG....

sekarang ini ente mbulet kemana mana. ane bahas yg mana??

Mbulet...atow anda sendiri dah cape.....???

ane kasih tau ya mang.. link entehttp://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm itu udah ane buktikan banyak ngawurnya. ente bawa bawa terus apa ente ga malu?

ha ha ha....jangan sangka referensi saya cuman situs itu pak...buanyakk banget....AKIDAH KRISTEN ini emang masalah SEJARAH....ya harus dibahas secara SEJARAH pula.....
Jangan dibandingkan dengan kambing kambing di nusantara lah.....Kristen emang cuman bisa bertahan di negara-negara MISKIN plus NEGARA BERKEMBANG...di negara negara MAJU yang otaknya sudah pada kritis....ajaran Kristen ini sudah mulai ditinggalkan...karena emang semakin terbukti cuman nerusin PAGANISME....yang melakukan penelitian pun bukan Kyai atow Ulama...tapi para Kristiani sendiri...Kristiani yang otaknya emang masih jalan...bukan cuman berdenyut doang.

masalah tanggal 25 december.. juga ada ortodox yang rayakan tanggal 6 januari. masalahnya dimana?

Anda ini debat dah panjang lebar..tapi masih berkutat di masalah ANGKA...
Pan sudah saya bilang...permasalahan utama nya adalah PARA TOKOH PAGANISME jauh sebelum Yesus brojol, diyakini LAHIR pada WINTER SOLTICE...setelah ada penanggalan Kalender, terutama Penanggalan Kalender Romawi yang sekarang diadopsi Kristen dan jadi kalender International..WINTER SOLTICE itu jatuh pada tanggal 21 Desember sampe 24 Desember....makanya tanggal 25 Desember nya yang dijadikan puncak perayaan kelahiran tokoh paganisme, salah satunya adalah DEWA MITHRA (dewa Matahari) nya Romawi..... tokoh yang lainnya masih banyak yang diyakini lahir pada WINTER SOLTICE.

Jadi..sekali lagi..bukan masalah ANGKA 25 nya...tapi waktunya..yaitu WINTER SOLTICE..!!

kalau ga mungkin 25 desember krn bersalju..

ada yg ngitung suhu saat Yesus lahir tgl 25 desember tahun 5 BC.

According to Bethlehem municipality site (http://www.bethlehem-city.org/index-6.php?Mid=MTAz, quoted in 2011 & 2012), average temperatures of Bethlehem range from 9-18° C in winter. Bethlehem receives an average of 7 hours of sunshine a day during the winter. Meanwhile, computation by software Millennia Calendar software version 2.0.0, the sun shone as long as 10 hours on December 25, 5 BC (Julian calendar) from the rising of the sun at 6:43 to its setting at 16:46.

http://natal25desember.com/bethlehem-temperature-on-christmas-day-december-25/

membeku ya? bersalju? hahahahaahaha...

Saya pake OTAK KRISTEN ENCER aja buat ngimbangin "ha ha ha ha ha " anda..

http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/when-was-jesus-christ-born-was-jesus-born-december-25-christmas-day

"Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early Christian teachers suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement...picked November 18. Hippolytus...figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday...An anonymous document[,] believed to have been written in North Africa around A.D. 243, placed Jesus's birth on March 28" (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report, "In Search of Christmas," Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).

A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that December 25 couldn't be the date for Christ's birth. Here are two primary reasons:

First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8 [7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
[8] And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.


See All...). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).

Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues "against the birth [of Christ] occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.

Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4 [1] And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
[2] (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
[3] And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
[4] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)


See All...). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, 1970, p. 62).

If Jesus Christ wasn't born on December 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36 [24] And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
[25] Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
[26] And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
[27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
[29] And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
[34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
[36] And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.


See All...), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

See All...). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year (The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13 [8] And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
[9] According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.
[10] And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.
[11] And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
[12] And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.


See All...). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

Although it is difficult to determine the first time anyone celebrated December 25 as Christmas Day, historians are in general agreement that it was sometime during the fourth century. This is an amazingly late date. Christmas was not observed in Rome, the capital of the Roman Empire, until about 300 years after Christ's death. Its origins cannot be traced back to either the teachings or practices of the earliest Christians.


Dah dibilingin...kita argumen kalo anda bener pegang waktu kelahiran Yesus pada LATE DECEMBER....

Ayo mulai..kalo masih penasaran....sudah jelas...bahwa permasalahannya ada di WINTER SOLTICE...bukan stack di masalah ANGKA 25.

Dari LInk yang anda kasih...

http://www.bethlehem-city.org/index-6.php?Mid=MTAz

The climate of Bethlehem for the greater part of the year is pleasant. Winter lasts for three months, from mid-December to mid-March, and can be severe. During the remainder of the year, the climate is temperate, with the hottest weather in the months of July and August. The Middle Eastern summer is eased by breezes coming from the Mediterranean Sea.

Summer although hot in the daytime, is fairly cool at night requiring a sweater.

The atmosphere of Bethlehem is clear and its air is pure. Summer temperatures reach 35° centigrade and in the winter temperature may drop to Zero.

Bethlehem receives an average of 700 mm of rainfall annually. The inconsistency of rainfall throughout the months and years requires that most vegetable cultivation be supplemented with irrigation to ensure normal growth.

The rainy season starts in the second half of autumn (mid-October) and continues until the end of April. Heavy rain is, however, limited to fewer than 50 days, with around 70% of the rain falling during November to February. The town is influenced by the Mediterranean Sea breeze that comes around mid-day. However, the town is affected by annual waves of hot, dry, sandy and dust Khamaseen winds which originate from the Arabian desert during the months of April, May and mid-June.

Bethlehem receives an average of seven hours of sunshine a day during the winter and thirteen hours during the summer. As a consequence, Bethlehemites use rooftop solar collectors extensively, to capture the solar energy and to replace limited and expensive available energy resources.

The average annual relative humidity is 60% and reaches its highest rates during the months of January and February. In May, however, humidity levels are at their lowest. Night dew may occur in up to 180 days per year. Visitors are therefore advised to dress warmly in winter, while in summer, they are advised to bring light clothes and sweaters for the evening. In addition a head cover and sun block are essential for protection against sunstroke and sunburn.

Kesimpulannya :

1. Kalo MUSIM PANAS...siang hari sudah jelas panas..tapi kalo malam sangat dingin, dibutuhkan SWEATER buat ngangetin badan.
2. Di MUSIM DINGIN (WINTER)....temperatur di Betlehem bisa ngedrop sampe ZERO/NOL derajat celcius.

Sedangkan di Lukas 2 :7-8 ...dijelaskan bahwa para KOBOY KAMBING menggembalakan kambingnya DI MALAM HARI.

Kalow pun toh patokan anda 18 Derajat Celcius....di artikel itu tidak disebutkan apakah 18 derajat celsius itu siang hari atow malam hari....kemungkinan itu adalah angka buat siang hari, dan malam hari bisa ngedrop sampe 9 derajat celsius..

"HANYA KOBOY KAMBING YANG GILA..DAN GAK ADA KERJAAN...MENGGEMBALAKAN KAMBINGNYA DI MALAM HARI DI SAAT SUHU BERADA PADA TITIK 9 DERAJAT CELCIUS..!!"

ya elah mang mang..

udah ane kasih link ente ga mau tau!

ane harus cari lagi.. ane males tau!

ane kasih clue.. saat bait suci di hancurkan tahun 70 an, yang jaga adalah grup pertama. ente google deh.

itulah dasar kalau kelahiran late december!

dan itu ketemu bisa tanggal 25 desember!

pada tahun 400an, ada rohaniawan yang menulis kalau perhitungan tanggal 25 desember itu benar. dasarnya apa? ya karena ada catatan yg mengatakan kalau grup pertama jaga saat penghancuran kuil suci oleh romawi.

ente cari deh kapan itu terjadi.

ini ada catatan, atau ada risalah, atau ada fakta tertulis!

sedang versi yang lain hanya berdasar akan perkiraan.

mengenai musim dingin..

ada catatan di awal abad juga yang mengatakan kalau gembala mengembala di musim dingin. kenapa? emang musim dingin kambing domba ga makan ya? terus makan apa?

apalagi hanya 9 derajat.

http://natal25desember.com/tag/musim-hujan-bukan-musim-dingin-es-salju-tebal/

tuh ada sedikit penjelasannya.. apa? masih kurang?? hahahahaha.. ini kisah nyatanya!

Here is an interesting experience from Dr. Harry Mulder of the Netherlands.
During the brief Christmas vacation my wife and I traveled from Beirut to Jerusalem . . . On Christmas Eve in Shepherd Field a crowd had gathered to sing Christmas carols. We joined this crowd and took part in the singing. Right near us a few flocks of sheep nestled. Even the lambs were not lacking. It was a moving sight. It is therefore definitely not impossible that the Lord Jesus was born in December.[1]

http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read1/r00372.html

"HANYA KOBOY KAMBING YANG GILA..DAN GAK ADA KERJAAN...MENGGEMBALAKAN KAMBINGNYA DI MALAM HARI DI SAAT SUHU BERADA PADA TITIK 9 DERAJAT CELCIUS..!!"

hahahaha.. koboy BEG00 ya mang.. hahahahaha..

ente kan ngaku udah ke jerusalem.. mbok kesana pas christmas eve..
biar lihat sendiri hahahaha..

ane dah buktikan tuduhan ente itu fitnah.. dari tanggal sampai ibu perawan. ane tau ente ga bisa mikir, jadi asal njeplak tulisan orang.

lha tulisan udah ane buktikan ngawur, ente ga mau terima.

sekarang malah fitnah lagi bilang akidah kiristen niru pagan.

mana??????

mosok udah fitnah, masih nunggu kumpulin bahan? hahahahaha

dopost

hoi mang!! ente bisa koar koar di sebelah.. kenapa ga berani kemari?
bahan kibulan ente belum ketemu ya? hahahahahaha..

kalau fitnah ente ga bisa di pertanggungjawabkan.. segeralah tobat! hehehehe..

kalau ente udah nyerah, dilanjut ama shalabuu ente aja di mari. ane juga pengen jedotin argumen ente hehehehe..

ramayana wrote:hoi mang!! ente bisa koar koar di sebelah.. kenapa ga berani kemari?
bahan kibulan ente belum ketemu ya? hahahahahaha..

kalau fitnah ente ga bisa di pertanggungjawabkan.. segeralah tobat! hehehehe..

kalau ente udah nyerah, dilanjut ama shalabuu ente aja di mari. ane juga pengen jedotin argumen ente hehehehe..

he he he...nyanteiii...nyanteiiiii...semua kebagian kok...mau itu FOXHOUND-SEGOROWEDI-OGLIKOM atow Paman Ramayana sekalipun...ini cuman masalah waktu, maklum posting juga abis kerja, jadi rebutan sama waktu istirahat...tenang aja...."mang odoy" PANTANG MUNDUR dari arena.....

mang odoy wrote:

ramayana wrote:hoi mang!! ente bisa koar koar di sebelah.. kenapa ga berani kemari?
bahan kibulan ente belum ketemu ya? hahahahahaha..

kalau fitnah ente ga bisa di pertanggungjawabkan.. segeralah tobat! hehehehe..

kalau ente udah nyerah, dilanjut ama shalabuu ente aja di mari. ane juga pengen jedotin argumen ente hehehehe..

he he he...nyanteiii...nyanteiiiii...semua kebagian kok...mau itu FOXHOUND-SEGOROWEDI-OGLIKOM atow Paman Ramayana sekalipun...ini cuman masalah waktu, maklum posting juga abis kerja, jadi rebutan sama waktu istirahat...tenang aja...."mang odoy" PANTANG MUNDUR dari arena.....

mong bukan masalah waktu atau pantang mundur!! tetapi kebenaran.
ente kalau ga ada bahan jangan ngasal! udah terbukti link ente ngawur. nete mau pantang menyerah model apalagi??

ane tunggu akidah pagan ente!

tinggal kasih aja susahnya dimana?? tinggal 1 kalimat atau 2 kalimat!

kalu ga ada, mari kita akhiri fitnah ente. ga malu ya mang? teriak teriak pakai fitnah terus lari?

Ramayana menang congor doang, skill minus

Orang bagi waktu dibilang lari, lo pikir dia jongos lo yg ngga ada kerjaan lain?

Prettttt!!!!
jijay guahhh

Kecoa Ngepot wrote:Ramayana menang congor doang, skill minus

Orang bagi waktu dibilang lari, lo pikir dia jongos lo yg ngga ada kerjaan lain?

Prettttt!!!!
jijay guahhh

hai kecoak.. seperti nama ente, itu juga kualitas ente hehehehe..

ga ada namanya akidah kristen ikut pagan! makanya dia lari, bukan krn bagi waktu!

mosok sesama muslim ente ga tau ilmu ngelesnya? hahahahaha..

udah 5 hari sejak dia koar koar.. kalau dia bilang ada akidah yg ikut pagan, kan berarti dia tau.

lha mana? kok ga ada? udah tau aja ga kasih kasih infonya.. kan artinya ngibul!