Ramayana vs mang odoy: Trinitas meniru paganisme.

mang odoy wrote:baca abis aja yang ini....melekin tu mata..tar kita bahas per bab..kalo perlu..

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

PAGAN & CHRISTIAN CREEDS:
THEIR ORIGIN AND MEANING

By Edward Carpenter

mang odoy wrote:baca abis aja yang ini....melekin tu mata..tar kita bahas per bab..kalo perlu..

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

PAGAN & CHRISTIAN CREEDS:
THEIR ORIGIN AND MEANING

By Edward Carpenter

mang odoy wrote:

ramayana wrote:

mang odoy wrote:

KRISTEN DAN PAGANISME

2. Tanggal Kelahiran
-Yesus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Mithra ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Osiris ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Baachus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember

3. Pengharapan orang
-Yesus ---> Mesias yg ditunggu
-Mithra ---> Perantara yg ditunggu
-Osiris ---> Pembebas yg ditunggu
-Baachus ---> Pembebas yg ditunggu

4. Lahir dari Ibu Perawan
-Yesus ---> Seorang perawan Maria
-Mithra ---> Seorang perawan Aishev
-Osiris ---> Seorang perawan Naeith
-Baachus ---> Seorang perawan Demeter

5. Kematian
-Yesus ---> Mati Disalib
-Mithra ---> Mati Dibunuh
-Osiris ---> Mati Dibunuh
-Baachus ---> Mati Dibunuh

6. Tujuan Kematian
-Yesus -> Menebus dosa manusia
-Mithra -> Menebus dosa manusia
-Osiris -> Menebus dosa manusia
-Baachus -> Menebus dosa manusia


7. Kebangkitan
-Yesus -> 3 hari dr penyaliban
-Mithra -> 3 hari dr pembunuhan
-Osiris -> 2 hari 3 malam dari pembunuhan
-Baachus -> 3 hari dari pembunuhan

8. Triteisme
-Yesus -> Oknum dr Trinitas (Anak,Bapa,Roh Kudus)
-Mithra -> Oknum dr Tridewa (Mitra,Ahirman,Ohrzmad)
-Osiris -> Oknum dr Tridewa (Osiris,Isis,Horus)
-Baachus -> Oknum dr Tridewa (Baachus,Apolos,Yupiter)

9. Kedatangan kedua kali ke dunia
-Yesus -> Menjelang kiamat
-Mithra -> Menjelang kiamat
-Osiris -> Menjelang kiamat
-Baachus -> Menjelang kiamat

ente kasih link!!
jangan njeplak tanpa bukti.

ini sejarah bacchus alias dionysus.

Dionysus had a strange birth that evokes the difficulty in fitting him into the Olympian pantheon. His mother was a mortal woman, Semele, the daughter of king Cadmus of Thebes, and his father was Zeus, the king of the gods. Zeus' wife, Hera, discovered the affair while Semele was pregnant. Appearing as an old crone (in other stories a nurse), Hera befriended Semele, who confided in her that Zeus was the actual father of the baby in her womb. Hera pretended not to believe her, and planted seeds of doubt in Semele's mind. Curious, Semele demanded of Zeus that he reveal himself in all his glory as proof of his godhood.
Though Zeus begged her not to ask this, she persisted and he agreed. Therefore he came to her wreathed in bolts of lightning; mortals, however, could not look upon an undisguised god without dying, and she perished in the ensuing blaze. Zeus rescued the fetal Dionysus by sewing him into his thigh. A few months later, Dionysus was born on Mount Pramnos in the island of Ikaria, where Zeus went to release the now-fully-grown baby from his thigh. In this version, Dionysus is born by two "mothers" (Semele and Zeus) before his birth, hence the epithet dimētōr (of two mothers) associated with his being "twice-born."
In the Cretan version of the same story, which Diodorus Siculus follows,[31] Dionysus was the son of Zeus and Persephone, the queen of the Greek underworld. Diodorus' sources equivocally identified the mother as Demeter.[32] A jealous Hera again attempted to kill the child, this time by sending Titans to rip Dionysus to pieces after luring the baby with toys. It is said that he was mocked by the Titans who gave him a thyrsus (a fennel stalk) in place of his rightful sceptre.[33] Zeus turned the Titans into dust with his thunderbolts, but only after the Titans ate everything but the heart, which was saved, variously, by Athena, Rhea, or Demeter. Zeus used the heart to recreate him in his thigh, hence he was again "the twice-born." Other versions claim that Zeus recreated him in the womb of Semele, or gave Semele the heart to eat to impregnate her.
The rebirth in both versions of the story is the primary reason why Dionysus was worshipped in mystery religions, as his death and rebirth were events of mystical reverence. This narrative was apparently used in several Greek and Roman cults, and variants of it are found in Callimachus and Nonnus, who refer to this Dionysus with the title Zagreus, and also in several fragmentary poems attributed to Orpheus.[citation needed]
The myth of the dismemberment of Dionysus by the Titans, is alluded to by Plato in his Phaedo (69d) in which Socrates claims that the initiations of the Dionysian Mysteries are similar to those of the philosophic path. Late Neo-Platonists such as Damascius explore the implications of this at length.[34]

mana bukti bacchus lahir dari perawan??

silahkan ente kasih sumber berita tuduhan ente.. dan mari kita lihat lagi ke g oblok an ente..

Silahkan DISANTAP yang ini...

http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html#.UM9KIqxaeTw

Dionysus: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Iacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Only Begotten Son" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

In studying religion and mythology, it is wise at to keep in mind that in the ancient world many gods were confounded and compounded, deliberately or otherwise. Some were even considered interchangeable, such as the Egyptian gods Osiris, Horus and Ra. In this regard, ancient Greek historian Plutarch (35, 364E) states, "Osiris is identical with Dionysus," the Greek son of God. Dionysus, also known as Bacchus or Iacchus, is likewise identified with the god Aion and referred to as "Zeus Sabazius" in other traditions. (Graves, 335) Hence, we would expect him to share at least some of all these gods' attributes, including being born of a virgin at the winter solstice (Aion), and dying and rising from the dead (Osiris).


Segitu aja dulu lahhh....tar ane kupas tuntas abis tuh LINK...he he he....

Masih punya NYALI buat ngadepin 'mang odoy'....
Wahai... RAMAYANA sang JUARA...???

ramayana wrote:

mang odoy wrote:baca abis aja yang ini....melekin tu mata..tar kita bahas per bab..kalo perlu..

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

PAGAN & CHRISTIAN CREEDS:
THEIR ORIGIN AND MEANING

By Edward Carpenter

@ momod. ini gimana?
kok ga ada referensinya? ane bahasnya gimana?

@ odoy. bawa kemari refernsinya.

dan atas dasar apa ente bilang yg nulis orang kristen?

tolong ente copas kisah yg mirip/persis Yesus. biar sama sama enak bahasnya hahahahaha..

NB. ane dah baca link ente.. hehehehe. keliatan kl ente ngawur.

jadi nabi Isa adalah mitos dong? hehehehe

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

II. SOLAR MYTHS AND CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS

To the ordinary public—notwithstanding the immense amount of work which has of late been done on this subject—the connection between Paganism and Christianity still seems rather remote. Indeed the common notion is that Christianity was really a miraculous interposition into and dislocation of the old order of the world; and that the pagan gods (as in Milton's Hymn on the Nativity) fled away in dismay before the sign of the Cross, and at the sound of the name of Jesus. Doubtless this was a view much encouraged by the early Church itself—if only to enhance its own authority and importance; yet, as is well known to every student, it is quite misleading and contrary to fact. The main Christian doctrines and festivals, besides a great mass of affiliated legend and ceremonial, are really quite directly derived from, and related to, preceding Nature worships; and it has only been by a good deal of deliberate mystification and falsification that this derivation has been kept out of sight.

In these Nature-worships there may be discerned three fairly independent streams of religious or quasi-religious enthusiasm: (1) that connected with the phenomena of the heavens, the movements of the Sun, planets and stars, and the awe and wonderment they excited; (2) that connected with the seasons and the very important matter of the growth of vegetation and food on the Earth; and (3) that connected with the mysteries of Sex and reproduction. It is obvious that these three streams would mingle and interfuse with each other a good deal; but as far as they were separable the first would tend to create Solar heroes and Sun-myths; the second Vegetation-gods and personifications of Nature and the earth-life; while the third would throw its glamour over the other two and contribute to the projection of deities or demons worshipped with all sorts of sexual and phallic rites. All three systems of course have their special rites and times and ceremonies; but, as, I say, the rites and ceremonies of one system would rarely be found pure and unmixed with those belonging to the two others. The whole subject is a very large one; but for reasons given in the Introduction I shall in this and the following chapter—while not ignoring phases (2) and (3)—lay most stress on phase (1) of the question before us.

At the time of the life or recorded appearance of Jesus of Nazareth, and for some centuries before, the Mediterranean and neighboring world had been the scene of a vast number of pagan creeds and rituals. There were Temples without end dedicated to gods like Apollo or Dionysus among the Greeks, Hercules among the Romans, Mithra among the Persians, Adonis and Attis in Syria and Phrygia, Osiris and Isis and Horus in Egypt, Baal and Astarte among the Babylonians and Carthaginians, and so forth. Societies, large or small, united believers and the devout in the service or ceremonials connected with their respective deities, and in the creeds which they confessed concerning these deities. And an extraordinarily interesting fact, for us, is that notwithstanding great geographical distances and racial differences between the adherents of these various cults, as well as differences in the details of their services, the general outlines of their creeds and ceremonials were—if not identical—so markedly similar as we find them.

I cannot of course go at length into these different cults, but I may say roughly that of all or nearly all the deities above-mentioned it was said and believed that:

(1) They were born on or very near our Christmas Day.

(2) They were born of a Virgin-Mother.

(3) And in a Cave or Underground Chamber.

(4) They led a life of toil for Mankind.

(5) And were called by the names of Light-bringer, Healer, Mediator, Savior, Deliverer.

(6) They were however vanquished by the Powers of Darkness.

(7) And descended into Hell or the Underworld.

(8) They rose again from the dead, and became the pioneers of mankind to the Heavenly world.

(9) They founded Communions of Saints, and Churches into which disciples were received by Baptism.

(10) And they were commemorated by Eucharistic meals.

Let me give a few brief examples.

Mithra was born in a cave, and on the 25th December. (1) He was born of a Virgin. (2) He traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men. He slew the Bull (symbol of the gross Earth which the sunlight fructifies). His great festivals were the winter solstice and the Spring equinox (Christmas and Easter). He had twelve companions or disciples (the twelve months). He was buried in a tomb, from which however he rose again; and his resurrection was celebrated yearly with great rejoicings. He was called Savior and Mediator, and sometimes figured as a Lamb; and sacramental feasts in remembrance of him were held by his followers. This legend is apparently partly astronomical and partly vegetational; and the same may be said of the following about Osiris.

(1) The birthfeast of Mithra was held in Rome on the 8th day
before the Kalends of January, being also the day of the Circassian
games, which were sacred to the Sun. (See F. Nork, Der Mystagog,
Leipzig.)

(2) This at any rate was reported by his later disciples (see
Robertson's Pagan Christs, p. 338).

Osiris was born (Plutarch tells us) on the 361st day of the year, say the 27th December. He too, like Mithra and Dionysus, was a great traveler. As King of Egypt he taught men civil arts, and "tamed them by music and gentleness, not by force of arms"; (1) he was the discoverer of corn and wine. But he was betrayed by Typhon, the power of darkness, and slain and dismembered. "This happened," says Plutarch, "on the 17th of the month Athyr, when the sun enters into the Scorpion" (the sign of the Zodiac which indicates the oncoming of Winter). His body was placed in a box, but afterwards, on the 19th, came again to life, and, as in the cults of Mithra, Dionysus, Adonis and others, so in the cult of Osiris, an image placed in a coffin was brought out before the worshipers and saluted with glad cries of "Osiris is risen." (1) "His sufferings, his death and his resurrection were enacted year by year in a great mystery-play at Abydos." (2)

(1) See Plutarch on Isis and Osiris.

(2) Ancient Art and Ritual, by Jane E. Harrison, chap. i.

The two following legends have more distinctly the character of Vegetation myths.

Adonis or Tammuz, the Syrian god of vegetation, was a very beautiful youth, born of a Virgin (Nature), and so beautiful that Venus and Proserpine (the goddesses of the Upper and Underworlds) both fell in love with him. To reconcile their claims it was agreed that he should spend half the year (summer) in the upper world, and the winter half with Proserpine below. He was killed by a boar (Typhon) in the autumn. And every year the maidens "wept for Adonis" (see Ezekiel viii. 14). In the spring a festival of his resurrection was held—the women set out to seek him, and having found the supposed corpse placed it (a wooden image) in a coffin or hollow tree, and performed wild rites and lamentations, followed by even wilder rejoicings over his supposed resurrection. At Aphaca in the North of Syria, and halfway between Byblus and Baalbec, there was a famous grove and temple of Astarte, near which was a wild romantic gorge full of trees, the birthplace of a certain river Adonis—the water rushing from a Cavern, under lofty cliffs. Here (it was said) every year the youth Adonis was again wounded to death, and the river ran red with his blood, (1) while the scarlet anemone bloomed among the cedars and walnuts.

(1) A discoloration caused by red earth washed by rain from the
mountains, and which has been observed by modern travelers. For the
whole story of Adonis and of Attis see Frazer's Golden Bough, part iv.

The story of Attis is very similar. He was a fair young shepherd or herdsman of Phrygia, beloved by Cybele (or Demeter), the Mother of the gods. He was born of a Virgin—Nana—who conceived by putting a ripe almond or pomegranate in her bosom. He died, either killed by a boar, the symbol of winter, like Adonis, or self-castrated (like his own priests); and he bled to death at the foot of a pine tree (the pine and pine-cone being symbols of fertility). The sacrifice of his blood renewed the fertility of the earth, and in the ritual celebration of his death and resurrection his image was fastened to the trunk of a pine-tree (compare the Crucifixion). But I shall return to this legend presently. The worship of Attis became very widespread and much honored, and was ultimately incorporated with the established religion at Rome somewhere about the commencement of our Era.

The following two legends (dealing with Hercules and with Krishna) have rather more of the character of the solar, and less of the vegetational myth about them. Both heroes were regarded as great benefactors of humanity; but the former more on the material plane, and the latter on the spiritual.

Hercules or Heracles was, like other Sun-gods and benefactors of mankind, a great Traveler. He was known in many lands, and everywhere he was invoked as Saviour. He was miraculously conceived from a divine Father; even in the cradle he strangled two serpents sent to destroy him. His many labors for the good of the world were ultimately epitomized into twelve, symbolized by the signs of the Zodiac. He slew the Nemxan Lion and the Hydra (offspring of Typhon) and the Boar. He overcame the Cretan Bull, and cleaned out the Stables of Augeas; he conquered Death and, descending into Hades, brought Cerberus thence and ascended into Heaven. On all sides he was followed by the gratitude and the prayers of mortals.

As to Krishna, the Indian god, the points of agreement with the general divine career indicated above are too salient to be overlooked, and too numerous to be fully recorded. He also was born of a Virgin (Devaki) and in a Cave, (1) and his birth announced by a Star. It was sought to destroy him, and for that purpose a massacre of infants was ordered. Everywhere he performed miracles, raising the dead, healing lepers, and the deaf and the blind, and championing the poor and oppressed. He had a beloved disciple, Arjuna, (cf. John) before whom he was transfigured. (2) His death is differently related—as being shot by an arrow, or crucified on a tree. He descended into hell; and rose again from the dead, ascending into heaven in the sight of many people. He will return at the last day to be the judge of the quick and the dead.

(1) Cox's Myths of the Aryan Nations, p. 107.

(2) Bhagavat Gita, ch. xi.

Such are some of the legends concerning the pagan and pre-Christian deities—only briefly sketched now, in order that we may get something like a true perspective of the whole subject; but to most of them, and more in detail, I shall return as the argument proceeds.

What we chiefly notice so far are two points; on the one hand the general similarity of these stories with that of Jesus Christ; on the other their analogy with the yearly phenomena of Nature as illustrated by the course of the Sun in heaven and the changes of Vegetation on the earth.

(1) The similarity of these ancient pagan legends and beliefs with Christian traditions was indeed so great that it excited the attention and the undisguised wrath of the early Christian fathers. They felt no doubt about the similarity, but not knowing how to explain it fell back upon the innocent theory that the Devil—in order to confound the Christians—had, CENTURIES BEFORE, caused the pagans to adopt certain beliefs and practices! (Very crafty, we may say, of the Devil, but also very innocent of the Fathers to believe it!) Justin Martyr for instance describes (1) the institution of the Lord's Supper as narrated in the Gospels, and then goes on to say: "Which the wicked devils have IMITATED in the mysteries of Mithra, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated you either know or can learn." Tertullian also says (2) that "the devil by the mysteries of his idols imitates even the main part of the divine mysteries."... "He baptizes his worshippers in water and makes them believe that this purifies them from their crimes."... "Mithra sets his mark on the forehead of his soldiers; he celebrates the oblation of bread; he offers an image of the resurrection, and presents at once the crown and the sword; he limits his chief priest to a single marriage; he even has his virgins and ascetics." (3) Cortez, too, it will be remembered complained that the Devil had positively taught to the Mexicans the same things which God had taught to Christendom.

(1) I Apol. c. 66.

(2) De Praescriptione Hereticorum, c. 40; De Bapt. c. 3; De
Corona, c. 15.

(3) For reference to both these examples see J. M. Robertson's
Pagan Christs, pp. 321, 322.

Justin Martyr again, in the Dialogue with Trypho says that the Birth in the Stable was the prototype (!) of the birth of Mithra in the Cave of Zoroastrianism; and boasts that Christ was born when the Sun takes its birth in the Augean Stable, (1) coming as a second Hercules to cleanse a foul world; and St. Augustine says "we hold this (Christmas) day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the Sun, but because of the birth of him who made it." There are plenty of other instances in the Early Fathers of their indignant ascription of these similarities to the work of devils; but we need not dwell over them. There is no need for US to be indignant. On the contrary we can now see that these animadversions of the Christian writers are the evidence of how and to what extent in the spread of Christianity over the world it had become fused with the Pagan cults previously existing.

(1) The Zodiacal sign of Capricornus, iii.

It was not till the year A.D. 530 or so—five centuries after the supposed birth of Christ—that a Scythian Monk, Dionysius Exiguus, an abbot and astronomer of Rome, was commissioned to fix the day and the year of that birth. A nice problem, considering the historical science of the period! For year he assigned the date which we now adopt, (2) and for day and month he adopted the 25th December—a date which had been in popular use since about 350 B.C., and the very date, within a day or two, of the supposed birth of the previous Sungods. (3) From that fact alone we may fairly conclude that by the year 530 or earlier the existing Nature-worships had become largely fused into Christianity. In fact the dates of the main pagan religious festivals had by that time become so popular that Christianity was OBLIGED to accommodate itself to them. (1)

(1) As, for instance, the festival of John the Baptist in June
took the place of the pagan midsummer festival of water and bathing;
the Assumption of the Virgin in August the place of that of Diana in the
same month; and the festival of All Souls early in November, that of the
world-wide pagan feasts of the dead and their ghosts at the same season.

(2) See Encycl. Brit. art. "Chronology."

(3) "There is however a difficulty in accepting the 25th December
as the real date of the Nativity, December being the height of the rainy
season in Judaea, when neither flocks nor shepherds could have been at
night in the fields of Bethlehem" (!). Encycl. Brit. art. "Christmas
Day." According to Hastings's Encyclopaedia, art. "Christmas," "Usener
says that the Feast of the Nativity was held originally on the 6th
January (the Epiphany), but in 353-4 the Pope Liberius displaced it to
the 25th December... but there is no evidence of a Feast of the Nativity
taking place at all, before the fourth century A.D." It was not till 534
A.D. that Christmas Day and Epiphany were reckoned by the law-courts as
dies non.

This brings us to the second point mentioned a few pages back—the analogy between the Christian festivals and the yearly phenomena of Nature in the Sun and the Vegetation.

Let us take Christmas Day first. Mithra, as we have seen, was reported to have been born on the 25th December (which in the Julian Calendar was reckoned as the day of the Winter Solstice AND of the Nativity of the Sun); Plutarch says (Isis and Osiris, c. 12) that Osiris was born on the 361st day of the year, when a Voice rang out proclaiming the Lord of All. Horus, he says, was born on the 362nd day. Apollo on the same.

Why was all this? Why did the Druids at Yule Tide light roaring fires? Why was the cock supposed to crow all Christmas Eve ("The bird of dawning singeth all night long")? Why was Apollo born with only one hair (the young Sun with only one feeble ray)? Why did Samson (name derived from Shemesh, the sun) lose all his strength when he lost his hair? Why were so many of these gods—Mithra, Apollo, Krishna, Jesus, and others, born in caves or underground chambers? (1) Why, at the Easter Eve festival of the Holy Sepulchre at Jerusalem is a light brought from the grave and communicated to the candles of thousands who wait outside, and who rush forth rejoicing to carry the new glory over the world? (2) Why indeed? except that older than all history and all written records has been the fear and wonderment of the children of men over the failure of the Sun's strength in Autumn—the decay of their God; and the anxiety lest by any means he should not revive or reappear?

(1) This same legend of gods (or idols) being born in caves has,
curiously enough, been reported from Mexico, Guatemala, the Antilles,
and other places in Central America. See C. F. P. von Martius,
Etknographie Amerika, etc. (Leipzig, 1867), vol. i, p. 758.

(2) Compare the Aztec ceremonial of lighting a holy fire and
communicating it to the multitude from the wounded breast of a human
victim, celebrated every 52 years at the end of one cycle and the
beginning of another—the constellation of the Pleiades being in the
Zenith (Prescott's Conquest of Mexico, Bk. I, ch. 4).

Think for a moment of a time far back when there were absolutely NO Almanacs or Calendars, either nicely printed or otherwise, when all that timid mortals could see was that their great source of Light and Warmth was daily failing, daily sinking lower in the sky. As everyone now knows there are about three weeks at the fag end of the year when the days are at their shortest and there is very little change. What was happening? Evidently the god had fallen upon evil times. Typhon, the prince of darkness, had betrayed him; Delilah, the queen of Night, had shorn his hair; the dreadful Boar had wounded him; Hercules was struggling with Death itself; he had fallen under the influence of those malign constellations—the Serpent and the Scorpion. Would the god grow weaker and weaker, and finally succumb, or would he conquer after all? We can imagine the anxiety with which those early men and women watched for the first indication of a lengthening day; and the universal joy when the Priest (the representative of primitive science) having made some simple observations, announced from the Temple steps that the day WAS lengthening—that the Sun was really born again to a new and glorious career. (1)

(1) It was such things as these which doubtless gave the
Priesthood its power.

Let us look at the elementary science of those days a little closer. How without Almanacs or Calendars could the day, or probable day, of the Sun's rebirth be fixed? Go out next Christmas Evening, and at midnight you will see the brightest of the fixed stars, Sirius, blazing in the southern sky—not however due south from you, but somewhat to the left of the Meridian line. Some three thousand years ago (owing to the Precession of the Equinoxes) that star at the winter solstice did not stand at midnight where you now see it, but almost exactly ON the meridian line. The coming of Sirius therefore to the meridian at midnight became the sign and assurance of the Sun having reached the very lowest point of his course, and therefore of having arrived at the moment of his re-birth. Where then was the Sun at that moment? Obviously in the underworld beneath our feet. Whatever views the ancients may have had about the shape of the earth, it was evident to the mass of people that the Sungod, after illuminating the world during the day, plunged down in the West, and remained there during the hours of darkness in some cavern under the earth. Here he rested and after bathing in the great ocean renewed his garments before reappearing in the East next morning.

But in this long night of his greatest winter weakness, when all the world was hoping and praying for the renewal of his strength, it is evident that the new birth would come—if it came at all—at midnight. This then was the sacred hour when in the underworld (the Stable or the Cave or whatever it might be called) the child was born who was destined to be the Savior of men. At that moment Sirius stood on the southern meridian (and in more southern lands than ours this would be more nearly overhead); and that star—there is little doubt—is the Star in the East mentioned in the Gospels.

To the right, as the supposed observer looks at Sirius on the midnight of Christmas Eve, stands the magnificent Orion, the mighty hunter. There are three stars in his belt which, as is well known, lie in a straight line pointing to Sirius. They are not so bright as Sirius, but they are sufficiently bright to attract attention. A long tradition gives them the name of the Three Kings. Dupuis (1) says: "Orion a trois belles etoiles vers le milieu, qui sont de seconde grandeur et posees en ligne droite, l'une pres de l'autre, le peuple les appelle les trois rois. On donne aux trois rois Magis les noms de Magalat, Galgalat, Saraim; et Athos, Satos, Paratoras. Les Catholiques les appellent Gaspard, Melchior, et Balthasar." The last-mentioned group of names comes in the Catholic Calendar in connection with the feast of the Epiphany (6th January); and the name "Trois Rois" is commonly to-day given to these stars by the French and Swiss peasants.

(1) Charles F. Dupuis (Origine de Tous les Cultes, Paris, 1822)
was one of the earliest modern writers on these subjects.

Immediately after Midnight then, on the 25th December, the Beloved Son (or Sun-god) is born. If we go back in thought to the period, some three thousand years ago, when at that moment of the heavenly birth Sirius, coming from the East, did actually stand on the Meridian, we shall come into touch with another curious astronomical coincidence. For at the same moment we shall see the Zodiacal constellation of the Virgin in the act of rising, and becoming visible in the East divided through the middle by the line of the horizon.

The constellation Virgo is a Y-shaped group, of which [gr a], the star at the foot, is the well-known Spica, a star of the first magnitude. The other principal stars, [gr g] at the centre, and [gr b] and [gr e] at the extremities, are of the second magnitude. The whole resembles more a cup than the human figure; but when we remember the symbolic meaning of the cup, that seems to be an obvious explanation of the name Virgo, which the constellation has borne since the earliest times. (The three stars [gr b], [gr g] and [gr a], lie very nearly on the Ecliptic, that is, the Sun's path—a fact to which we shall return presently.)

At the moment then when Sirius, the star from the East, by coming to the Meridian at midnight signalled the Sun's new birth, the Virgin was seen just rising on the Eastern sky—the horizon line passing through her centre. And many people think that this astronomical fact is the explanation of the very widespread legend of the Virgin-birth. I do not think that it is the sole explanation—for indeed in all or nearly all these cases the acceptance of a myth seems to depend not upon a single argument but upon the convergence of a number of meanings and reasons in the same symbol. But certainly the fact mentioned above is curious, and its importance is accentuated by the following considerations.

In the Temple of Denderah in Egypt, and on the inside of the dome, there is or WAS an elaborate circular representation of the Northern hemisphere of the sky and the Zodiac. (1) Here Virgo the constellation is represented, as in our star-maps, by a woman with a spike of corn in her hand (Spica). But on the margin close by there is an annotating and explicatory figure—a figure of Isis with the infant Horus in her arms, and quite resembling in style the Christian Madonna and Child, except that she is sitting and the child is on her knee. This seems to show that—whatever other nations may have done in associating Virgo with Demeter, Ceres, Diana (2) etc.—the Egyptians made no doubt of the constellation's connection with Isis and Horus. But it is well known as a matter of history that the worship of Isis and Horus descended in the early Christian centuries to Alexandria, where it took the form of the worship of the Virgin Mary and the infant Savior, and so passed into the European ceremonial. We have therefore the Virgin Mary connected by linear succession and descent with that remote Zodiacal cluster in the sky! Also it may be mentioned that on the Arabian and Persian globes of Abenezra and Abuazar a Virgin and Child are figured in connection with the same constellation. (3)

(1) Carefully described and mapped by Dupuis, see op. cit.

(2) For the harvest-festival of Diana, the Virgin, and her
parallelism with the Virgin Mary, see The Golden Bough, vol. i, 14 and
ii, 121.

(3) See F. Nork, Der Mystagog (Leipzig, 1838).

A curious confirmation of the same astronomical connection is afforded by the Roman Catholic Calendar. For if this be consulted it will be found that the festival of the Assumption of the Virgin is placed on the 15th August, while the festival of the Birth of the Virgin is dated the 8th September. I have already pointed out that the stars, [gr a], [gr b] and [gr g] of Virgo are almost exactly on the Ecliptic, or Sun's path through the sky; and a brief reference to the Zodiacal signs and the star-maps will show that the Sun each year enters the sign of Virgo about the first-mentioned date, and leaves it about the second date. At the present day the Zodiacal signs (owing to precession) have shifted some distance from the constellations of the same name. But at the time when the Zodiac was constituted and these names were given, the first date obviously would signalize the actual disappearance of the cluster Virgo in the Sun's rays—i. e. the Assumption of the Virgin into the glory of the God—while the second date would signalize the reappearance of the constellation or the Birth of the Virgin. The Church of Notre Dame at Paris is supposed to be on the original site of a Temple of Isis; and it is said (but I have not been able to verify this myself) that one of the side entrances—that, namely, on the left in entering from the North (cloister) side—is figured with the signs of the Zodiac EXCEPT that the sign Virgo is replaced by the figure of the Madonna and Child.

So strange is the scripture of the sky! Innumerable legends and customs connect the rebirth of the Sun with a Virgin parturition. Dr. J. G. Frazer in his Part IV of The Golden Bough (1) says: "If we may trust the evidence of an obscure scholiast the Greeks (in the worship of Mithras at Rome) used to celebrate the birth of the luminary by a midnight service, coming out of the inner shrines and crying, 'The Virgin has brought forth! The light is waxing!' ([gr 'H parhenos tetoken, auzei pws].)" In Elie Reclus' little book Primitive Folk (2) it is said of the Esquimaux that "On the longest night of the year two angakout (priests), of whom one is disguised as a WOMAN, go from hut to hut extinguishing all the lights, rekindling them from a vestal flame, and crying out, 'From the new sun cometh a new light!'"

(1) Book II, ch. vi.

(2) In the Contemporary Science Series, I. 92.

All this above-written on the Solar or Astronomical origins of the myths does not of course imply that the Vegetational origins must be denied or ignored. These latter were doubtless the earliest, but there is no reason—as said in the Introduction (ch. i)—why the two elements should not to some extent have run side by side, or been fused with each other. In fact it is quite clear that they must have done so; and to separate them out too rigidly, or treat them as antagonistic, is a mistake. The Cave or Underworld in which the New Year is born is not only the place of the Sun's winter retirement, but also the hidden chamber beneath the Earth to which the dying Vegetation goes, and from which it re-arises in Spring. The amours of Adonis with Venus and Proserpine, the lovely goddesses of the upper and under worlds, or of Attis with Cybele, the blooming Earth-mother, are obvious vegetation-symbols; but they do not exclude the interpretation that Adonis (Adonai) may also figure as a Sun-god. The Zodiacal constellations of Aries and Taurus (to which I shall return presently) rule in heaven just when the Lamb and the Bull are in evidence on the earth; and the yearly sacrifice of those two animals and of the growing Corn for the good of mankind runs parallel with the drama of the sky, as it affects not only the said constellations but also Virgo (the Earth-mother who bears the sheaf of corn in her hand).

I shall therefore continue (in the next chapter) to point out these astronomical references—which are full of significance and poetry; but with a recommendation at the same time to the reader not to forget the poetry and significance of the terrestrial interpretations.

Between Christmas Day and Easter there are several minor festivals or holy days—such as the 28th December (the Massacre of the Innocents), the 6th January (the Epiphany), the 2nd February (Candlemas (1) Day), the period of Lent (German Lenz, the Spring), the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin, and so forth—which have been commonly celebrated in the pagan cults before Christianity, and in which elements of Star and Nature worship can be traced; but to dwell on all these would take too long; so let us pass at once to the period of Easter itself.

(1) This festival of the Purification of the Virgin corresponds
with the old Roman festival of Juno Februata (i. e. purified) which was
held in the last month (February) of the Roman year, and which included
a candle procession of Ceres, searching for Proserpine. (F. Nork, Der
Mystagog.)

mang odoy wrote:Walo judu tret ini cuman menyinggung TRINITAS...maka saya disini akan MEMBABAT semua KEPAGANAN KRISTEN...tidak melulu kopi torabika 3 in one...

Kembali ke buku yang saya rujuk dalam masalah KE PAGANAN KRISTEN ini...yang ini..kita mulai dari bab pertama...

MITOS MITOS MATAHARI DAN FESTIVAL KRISTEN..!

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

II. SOLAR MYTHS AND CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS

To the ordinary public—notwithstanding the immense amount of work which has of late been done on this subject—the connection between Paganism and Christianity still seems rather remote. Indeed the common notion is that Christianity was really a miraculous interposition into and dislocation of the old order of the world; and that the pagan gods (as in Milton's Hymn on the Nativity) fled away in dismay before the sign of the Cross, and at the sound of the name of Jesus. Doubtless this was a view much encouraged by the early Church itself—if only to enhance its own authority and importance; yet, as is well known to every student, it is quite misleading and contrary to fact. The main Christian doctrines and festivals, besides a great mass of affiliated legend and ceremonial, are really quite directly derived from, and related to, preceding Nature worships; and it has only been by a good deal of deliberate mystification and falsification that this derivation has been kept out of sight.

In these Nature-worships there may be discerned three fairly independent streams of religious or quasi-religious enthusiasm: (1) that connected with the phenomena of the heavens, the movements of the Sun, planets and stars, and the awe and wonderment they excited; (2) that connected with the seasons and the very important matter of the growth of vegetation and food on the Earth; and (3) that connected with the mysteries of Sex and reproduction. It is obvious that these three streams would mingle and interfuse with each other a good deal; but as far as they were separable the first would tend to create Solar heroes and Sun-myths; the second Vegetation-gods and personifications of Nature and the earth-life; while the third would throw its glamour over the other two and contribute to the projection of deities or demons worshipped with all sorts of sexual and phallic rites. All three systems of course have their special rites and times and ceremonies; but, as, I say, the rites and ceremonies of one system would rarely be found pure and unmixed with those belonging to the two others. The whole subject is a very large one; but for reasons given in the Introduction I shall in this and the following chapter—while not ignoring phases (2) and (3)—lay most stress on phase (1) of the question before us.

At the time of the life or recorded appearance of Jesus of Nazareth, and for some centuries before, the Mediterranean and neighboring world had been the scene of a vast number of pagan creeds and rituals. There were Temples without end dedicated to gods like Apollo or Dionysus among the Greeks, Hercules among the Romans, Mithra among the Persians, Adonis and Attis in Syria and Phrygia, Osiris and Isis and Horus in Egypt, Baal and Astarte among the Babylonians and Carthaginians, and so forth. Societies, large or small, united believers and the devout in the service or ceremonials connected with their respective deities, and in the creeds which they confessed concerning these deities. And an extraordinarily interesting fact, for us, is that notwithstanding great geographical distances and racial differences between the adherents of these various cults, as well as differences in the details of their services, the general outlines of their creeds and ceremonials were—if not identical—so markedly similar as we find them.

I cannot of course go at length into these different cults, but I may say roughly that of all or nearly all the deities above-mentioned it was said and believed that:

(1) They were born on or very near our Christmas Day.

(2) They were born of a Virgin-Mother.

(3) And in a Cave or Underground Chamber.

(4) They led a life of toil for Mankind.

(5) And were called by the names of Light-bringer, Healer, Mediator, Savior, Deliverer.

(6) They were however vanquished by the Powers of Darkness.

(7) And descended into Hell or the Underworld.

(8) They rose again from the dead, and became the pioneers of mankind to the Heavenly world.

(9) They founded Communions of Saints, and Churches into which disciples were received by Baptism.

(10) And they were commemorated by Eucharistic meals.

Let me give a few brief examples.

Mithra was born in a cave, and on the 25th December. (1) He was born of a Virgin. (2) He traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men. He slew the Bull (symbol of the gross Earth which the sunlight fructifies). His great festivals were the winter solstice and the Spring equinox (Christmas and Easter). He had twelve companions or disciples (the twelve months). He was buried in a tomb, from which however he rose again; and his resurrection was celebrated yearly with great rejoicings. He was called Savior and Mediator, and sometimes figured as a Lamb; and sacramental feasts in remembrance of him were held by his followers. This legend is apparently partly astronomical and partly vegetational; and the same may be said of the following about Osiris.

(1) The birthfeast of Mithra was held in Rome on the 8th day
before the Kalends of January, being also the day of the Circassian
games, which were sacred to the Sun. (See F. Nork, Der Mystagog,
Leipzig.)

(2) This at any rate was reported by his later disciples (see
Robertson's Pagan Christs, p. 338).

Osiris was born (Plutarch tells us) on the 361st day of the year, say the 27th December. He too, like Mithra and Dionysus, was a great traveler. As King of Egypt he taught men civil arts, and "tamed them by music and gentleness, not by force of arms"; (1) he was the discoverer of corn and wine. But he was betrayed by Typhon, the power of darkness, and slain and dismembered. "This happened," says Plutarch, "on the 17th of the month Athyr, when the sun enters into the Scorpion" (the sign of the Zodiac which indicates the oncoming of Winter). His body was placed in a box, but afterwards, on the 19th, came again to life, and, as in the cults of Mithra, Dionysus, Adonis and others, so in the cult of Osiris, an image placed in a coffin was brought out before the worshipers and saluted with glad cries of "Osiris is risen." (1) "His sufferings, his death and his resurrection were enacted year by year in a great mystery-play at Abydos." (2)

(1) See Plutarch on Isis and Osiris.

(2) Ancient Art and Ritual, by Jane E. Harrison, chap. i.

The two following legends have more distinctly the character of Vegetation myths.

Adonis or Tammuz, the Syrian god of vegetation, was a very beautiful youth, born of a Virgin (Nature), and so beautiful that Venus and Proserpine (the goddesses of the Upper and Underworlds) both fell in love with him. To reconcile their claims it was agreed that he should spend half the year (summer) in the upper world, and the winter half with Proserpine below. He was killed by a boar (Typhon) in the autumn. And every year the maidens "wept for Adonis" (see Ezekiel viii. 14). In the spring a festival of his resurrection was held—the women set out to seek him, and having found the supposed corpse placed it (a wooden image) in a coffin or hollow tree, and performed wild rites and lamentations, followed by even wilder rejoicings over his supposed resurrection. At Aphaca in the North of Syria, and halfway between Byblus and Baalbec, there was a famous grove and temple of Astarte, near which was a wild romantic gorge full of trees, the birthplace of a certain river Adonis—the water rushing from a Cavern, under lofty cliffs. Here (it was said) every year the youth Adonis was again wounded to death, and the river ran red with his blood, (1) while the scarlet anemone bloomed among the cedars and walnuts.

(1) A discoloration caused by red earth washed by rain from the
mountains, and which has been observed by modern travelers. For the
whole story of Adonis and of Attis see Frazer's Golden Bough, part iv.

The story of Attis is very similar. He was a fair young shepherd or herdsman of Phrygia, beloved by Cybele (or Demeter), the Mother of the gods. He was born of a Virgin—Nana—who conceived by putting a ripe almond or pomegranate in her bosom. He died, either killed by a boar, the symbol of winter, like Adonis, or self-castrated (like his own priests); and he bled to death at the foot of a pine tree (the pine and pine-cone being symbols of fertility). The sacrifice of his blood renewed the fertility of the earth, and in the ritual celebration of his death and resurrection his image was fastened to the trunk of a pine-tree (compare the Crucifixion). But I shall return to this legend presently. The worship of Attis became very widespread and much honored, and was ultimately incorporated with the established religion at Rome somewhere about the commencement of our Era.

The following two legends (dealing with Hercules and with Krishna) have rather more of the character of the solar, and less of the vegetational myth about them. Both heroes were regarded as great benefactors of humanity; but the former more on the material plane, and the latter on the spiritual.

Hercules or Heracles was, like other Sun-gods and benefactors of mankind, a great Traveler. He was known in many lands, and everywhere he was invoked as Saviour. He was miraculously conceived from a divine Father; even in the cradle he strangled two serpents sent to destroy him. His many labors for the good of the world were ultimately epitomized into twelve, symbolized by the signs of the Zodiac. He slew the Nemxan Lion and the Hydra (offspring of Typhon) and the Boar. He overcame the Cretan Bull, and cleaned out the Stables of Augeas; he conquered Death and, descending into Hades, brought Cerberus thence and ascended into Heaven. On all sides he was followed by the gratitude and the prayers of mortals.

As to Krishna, the Indian god, the points of agreement with the general divine career indicated above are too salient to be overlooked, and too numerous to be fully recorded. He also was born of a Virgin (Devaki) and in a Cave, (1) and his birth announced by a Star. It was sought to destroy him, and for that purpose a massacre of infants was ordered. Everywhere he performed miracles, raising the dead, healing lepers, and the deaf and the blind, and championing the poor and oppressed. He had a beloved disciple, Arjuna, (cf. John) before whom he was transfigured. (2) His death is differently related—as being shot by an arrow, or crucified on a tree. He descended into hell; and rose again from the dead, ascending into heaven in the sight of many people. He will return at the last day to be the judge of the quick and the dead.

(1) Cox's Myths of the Aryan Nations, p. 107.

(2) Bhagavat Gita, ch. xi.

Such are some of the legends concerning the pagan and pre-Christian deities—only briefly sketched now, in order that we may get something like a true perspective of the whole subject; but to most of them, and more in detail, I shall return as the argument proceeds.

What we chiefly notice so far are two points; on the one hand the general similarity of these stories with that of Jesus Christ; on the other their analogy with the yearly phenomena of Nature as illustrated by the course of the Sun in heaven and the changes of Vegetation on the earth.

(1) The similarity of these ancient pagan legends and beliefs with Christian traditions was indeed so great that it excited the attention and the undisguised wrath of the early Christian fathers. They felt no doubt about the similarity, but not knowing how to explain it fell back upon the innocent theory that the Devil—in order to confound the Christians—had, CENTURIES BEFORE, caused the pagans to adopt certain beliefs and practices! (Very crafty, we may say, of the Devil, but also very innocent of the Fathers to believe it!) Justin Martyr for instance describes (1) the institution of the Lord's Supper as narrated in the Gospels, and then goes on to say: "Which the wicked devils have IMITATED in the mysteries of Mithra, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated you either know or can learn." Tertullian also says (2) that "the devil by the mysteries of his idols imitates even the main part of the divine mysteries."... "He baptizes his worshippers in water and makes them believe that this purifies them from their crimes."... "Mithra sets his mark on the forehead of his soldiers; he celebrates the oblation of bread; he offers an image of the resurrection, and presents at once the crown and the sword; he limits his chief priest to a single marriage; he even has his virgins and ascetics." (3) Cortez, too, it will be remembered complained that the Devil had positively taught to the Mexicans the same things which God had taught to Christendom.

(1) I Apol. c. 66.

(2) De Praescriptione Hereticorum, c. 40; De Bapt. c. 3; De
Corona, c. 15.

(3) For reference to both these examples see J. M. Robertson's
Pagan Christs, pp. 321, 322.

Justin Martyr again, in the Dialogue with Trypho says that the Birth in the Stable was the prototype (!) of the birth of Mithra in the Cave of Zoroastrianism; and boasts that Christ was born when the Sun takes its birth in the Augean Stable, (1) coming as a second Hercules to cleanse a foul world; and St. Augustine says "we hold this (Christmas) day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the Sun, but because of the birth of him who made it." There are plenty of other instances in the Early Fathers of their indignant ascription of these similarities to the work of devils; but we need not dwell over them. There is no need for US to be indignant. On the contrary we can now see that these animadversions of the Christian writers are the evidence of how and to what extent in the spread of Christianity over the world it had become fused with the Pagan cults previously existing.

(1) The Zodiacal sign of Capricornus, iii.

It was not till the year A.D. 530 or so—five centuries after the supposed birth of Christ—that a Scythian Monk, Dionysius Exiguus, an abbot and astronomer of Rome, was commissioned to fix the day and the year of that birth. A nice problem, considering the historical science of the period! For year he assigned the date which we now adopt, (2) and for day and month he adopted the 25th December—a date which had been in popular use since about 350 B.C., and the very date, within a day or two, of the supposed birth of the previous Sungods. (3) From that fact alone we may fairly conclude that by the year 530 or earlier the existing Nature-worships had become largely fused into Christianity. In fact the dates of the main pagan religious festivals had by that time become so popular that Christianity was OBLIGED to accommodate itself to them. (1)

(1) As, for instance, the festival of John the Baptist in June
took the place of the pagan midsummer festival of water and bathing;
the Assumption of the Virgin in August the place of that of Diana in the
same month; and the festival of All Souls early in November, that of the
world-wide pagan feasts of the dead and their ghosts at the same season.

(2) See Encycl. Brit. art. "Chronology."

(3) "There is however a difficulty in accepting the 25th December
as the real date of the Nativity, December being the height of the rainy
season in Judaea, when neither flocks nor shepherds could have been at
night in the fields of Bethlehem" (!). Encycl. Brit. art. "Christmas
Day." According to Hastings's Encyclopaedia, art. "Christmas," "Usener
says that the Feast of the Nativity was held originally on the 6th
January (the Epiphany), but in 353-4 the Pope Liberius displaced it to
the 25th December... but there is no evidence of a Feast of the Nativity
taking place at all, before the fourth century A.D." It was not till 534
A.D. that Christmas Day and Epiphany were reckoned by the law-courts as
dies non.

This brings us to the second point mentioned a few pages back—the analogy between the Christian festivals and the yearly phenomena of Nature in the Sun and the Vegetation.

Let us take Christmas Day first. Mithra, as we have seen, was reported to have been born on the 25th December (which in the Julian Calendar was reckoned as the day of the Winter Solstice AND of the Nativity of the Sun); Plutarch says (Isis and Osiris, c. 12) that Osiris was born on the 361st day of the year, when a Voice rang out proclaiming the Lord of All. Horus, he says, was born on the 362nd day. Apollo on the same.

Why was all this? Why did the Druids at Yule Tide light roaring fires? Why was the cock supposed to crow all Christmas Eve ("The bird of dawning singeth all night long")? Why was Apollo born with only one hair (the young Sun with only one feeble ray)? Why did Samson (name derived from Shemesh, the sun) lose all his strength when he lost his hair? Why were so many of these gods—Mithra, Apollo, Krishna, Jesus, and others, born in caves or underground chambers? (1) Why, at the Easter Eve festival of the Holy Sepulchre at Jerusalem is a light brought from the grave and communicated to the candles of thousands who wait outside, and who rush forth rejoicing to carry the new glory over the world? (2) Why indeed? except that older than all history and all written records has been the fear and wonderment of the children of men over the failure of the Sun's strength in Autumn—the decay of their God; and the anxiety lest by any means he should not revive or reappear?

(1) This same legend of gods (or idols) being born in caves has,
curiously enough, been reported from Mexico, Guatemala, the Antilles,
and other places in Central America. See C. F. P. von Martius,
Etknographie Amerika, etc. (Leipzig, 1867), vol. i, p. 758.

(2) Compare the Aztec ceremonial of lighting a holy fire and
communicating it to the multitude from the wounded breast of a human
victim, celebrated every 52 years at the end of one cycle and the
beginning of another—the constellation of the Pleiades being in the
Zenith (Prescott's Conquest of Mexico, Bk. I, ch. 4).

Think for a moment of a time far back when there were absolutely NO Almanacs or Calendars, either nicely printed or otherwise, when all that timid mortals could see was that their great source of Light and Warmth was daily failing, daily sinking lower in the sky. As everyone now knows there are about three weeks at the fag end of the year when the days are at their shortest and there is very little change. What was happening? Evidently the god had fallen upon evil times. Typhon, the prince of darkness, had betrayed him; Delilah, the queen of Night, had shorn his hair; the dreadful Boar had wounded him; Hercules was struggling with Death itself; he had fallen under the influence of those malign constellations—the Serpent and the Scorpion. Would the god grow weaker and weaker, and finally succumb, or would he conquer after all? We can imagine the anxiety with which those early men and women watched for the first indication of a lengthening day; and the universal joy when the Priest (the representative of primitive science) having made some simple observations, announced from the Temple steps that the day WAS lengthening—that the Sun was really born again to a new and glorious career. (1)

(1) It was such things as these which doubtless gave the
Priesthood its power.

Let us look at the elementary science of those days a little closer. How without Almanacs or Calendars could the day, or probable day, of the Sun's rebirth be fixed? Go out next Christmas Evening, and at midnight you will see the brightest of the fixed stars, Sirius, blazing in the southern sky—not however due south from you, but somewhat to the left of the Meridian line. Some three thousand years ago (owing to the Precession of the Equinoxes) that star at the winter solstice did not stand at midnight where you now see it, but almost exactly ON the meridian line. The coming of Sirius therefore to the meridian at midnight became the sign and assurance of the Sun having reached the very lowest point of his course, and therefore of having arrived at the moment of his re-birth. Where then was the Sun at that moment? Obviously in the underworld beneath our feet. Whatever views the ancients may have had about the shape of the earth, it was evident to the mass of people that the Sungod, after illuminating the world during the day, plunged down in the West, and remained there during the hours of darkness in some cavern under the earth. Here he rested and after bathing in the great ocean renewed his garments before reappearing in the East next morning.

But in this long night of his greatest winter weakness, when all the world was hoping and praying for the renewal of his strength, it is evident that the new birth would come—if it came at all—at midnight. This then was the sacred hour when in the underworld (the Stable or the Cave or whatever it might be called) the child was born who was destined to be the Savior of men. At that moment Sirius stood on the southern meridian (and in more southern lands than ours this would be more nearly overhead); and that star—there is little doubt—is the Star in the East mentioned in the Gospels.

To the right, as the supposed observer looks at Sirius on the midnight of Christmas Eve, stands the magnificent Orion, the mighty hunter. There are three stars in his belt which, as is well known, lie in a straight line pointing to Sirius. They are not so bright as Sirius, but they are sufficiently bright to attract attention. A long tradition gives them the name of the Three Kings. Dupuis (1) says: "Orion a trois belles etoiles vers le milieu, qui sont de seconde grandeur et posees en ligne droite, l'une pres de l'autre, le peuple les appelle les trois rois. On donne aux trois rois Magis les noms de Magalat, Galgalat, Saraim; et Athos, Satos, Paratoras. Les Catholiques les appellent Gaspard, Melchior, et Balthasar." The last-mentioned group of names comes in the Catholic Calendar in connection with the feast of the Epiphany (6th January); and the name "Trois Rois" is commonly to-day given to these stars by the French and Swiss peasants.

(1) Charles F. Dupuis (Origine de Tous les Cultes, Paris, 1822)
was one of the earliest modern writers on these subjects.

Immediately after Midnight then, on the 25th December, the Beloved Son (or Sun-god) is born. If we go back in thought to the period, some three thousand years ago, when at that moment of the heavenly birth Sirius, coming from the East, did actually stand on the Meridian, we shall come into touch with another curious astronomical coincidence. For at the same moment we shall see the Zodiacal constellation of the Virgin in the act of rising, and becoming visible in the East divided through the middle by the line of the horizon.

The constellation Virgo is a Y-shaped group, of which [gr a], the star at the foot, is the well-known Spica, a star of the first magnitude. The other principal stars, [gr g] at the centre, and [gr b] and [gr e] at the extremities, are of the second magnitude. The whole resembles more a cup than the human figure; but when we remember the symbolic meaning of the cup, that seems to be an obvious explanation of the name Virgo, which the constellation has borne since the earliest times. (The three stars [gr b], [gr g] and [gr a], lie very nearly on the Ecliptic, that is, the Sun's path—a fact to which we shall return presently.)

At the moment then when Sirius, the star from the East, by coming to the Meridian at midnight signalled the Sun's new birth, the Virgin was seen just rising on the Eastern sky—the horizon line passing through her centre. And many people think that this astronomical fact is the explanation of the very widespread legend of the Virgin-birth. I do not think that it is the sole explanation—for indeed in all or nearly all these cases the acceptance of a myth seems to depend not upon a single argument but upon the convergence of a number of meanings and reasons in the same symbol. But certainly the fact mentioned above is curious, and its importance is accentuated by the following considerations.

In the Temple of Denderah in Egypt, and on the inside of the dome, there is or WAS an elaborate circular representation of the Northern hemisphere of the sky and the Zodiac. (1) Here Virgo the constellation is represented, as in our star-maps, by a woman with a spike of corn in her hand (Spica). But on the margin close by there is an annotating and explicatory figure—a figure of Isis with the infant Horus in her arms, and quite resembling in style the Christian Madonna and Child, except that she is sitting and the child is on her knee. This seems to show that—whatever other nations may have done in associating Virgo with Demeter, Ceres, Diana (2) etc.—the Egyptians made no doubt of the constellation's connection with Isis and Horus. But it is well known as a matter of history that the worship of Isis and Horus descended in the early Christian centuries to Alexandria, where it took the form of the worship of the Virgin Mary and the infant Savior, and so passed into the European ceremonial. We have therefore the Virgin Mary connected by linear succession and descent with that remote Zodiacal cluster in the sky! Also it may be mentioned that on the Arabian and Persian globes of Abenezra and Abuazar a Virgin and Child are figured in connection with the same constellation. (3)

(1) Carefully described and mapped by Dupuis, see op. cit.

(2) For the harvest-festival of Diana, the Virgin, and her
parallelism with the Virgin Mary, see The Golden Bough, vol. i, 14 and
ii, 121.

(3) See F. Nork, Der Mystagog (Leipzig, 1838).

A curious confirmation of the same astronomical connection is afforded by the Roman Catholic Calendar. For if this be consulted it will be found that the festival of the Assumption of the Virgin is placed on the 15th August, while the festival of the Birth of the Virgin is dated the 8th September. I have already pointed out that the stars, [gr a], [gr b] and [gr g] of Virgo are almost exactly on the Ecliptic, or Sun's path through the sky; and a brief reference to the Zodiacal signs and the star-maps will show that the Sun each year enters the sign of Virgo about the first-mentioned date, and leaves it about the second date. At the present day the Zodiacal signs (owing to precession) have shifted some distance from the constellations of the same name. But at the time when the Zodiac was constituted and these names were given, the first date obviously would signalize the actual disappearance of the cluster Virgo in the Sun's rays—i. e. the Assumption of the Virgin into the glory of the God—while the second date would signalize the reappearance of the constellation or the Birth of the Virgin. The Church of Notre Dame at Paris is supposed to be on the original site of a Temple of Isis; and it is said (but I have not been able to verify this myself) that one of the side entrances—that, namely, on the left in entering from the North (cloister) side—is figured with the signs of the Zodiac EXCEPT that the sign Virgo is replaced by the figure of the Madonna and Child.

So strange is the scripture of the sky! Innumerable legends and customs connect the rebirth of the Sun with a Virgin parturition. Dr. J. G. Frazer in his Part IV of The Golden Bough (1) says: "If we may trust the evidence of an obscure scholiast the Greeks (in the worship of Mithras at Rome) used to celebrate the birth of the luminary by a midnight service, coming out of the inner shrines and crying, 'The Virgin has brought forth! The light is waxing!' ([gr 'H parhenos tetoken, auzei pws].)" In Elie Reclus' little book Primitive Folk (2) it is said of the Esquimaux that "On the longest night of the year two angakout (priests), of whom one is disguised as a WOMAN, go from hut to hut extinguishing all the lights, rekindling them from a vestal flame, and crying out, 'From the new sun cometh a new light!'"

(1) Book II, ch. vi.

(2) In the Contemporary Science Series, I. 92.

All this above-written on the Solar or Astronomical origins of the myths does not of course imply that the Vegetational origins must be denied or ignored. These latter were doubtless the earliest, but there is no reason—as said in the Introduction (ch. i)—why the two elements should not to some extent have run side by side, or been fused with each other. In fact it is quite clear that they must have done so; and to separate them out too rigidly, or treat them as antagonistic, is a mistake. The Cave or Underworld in which the New Year is born is not only the place of the Sun's winter retirement, but also the hidden chamber beneath the Earth to which the dying Vegetation goes, and from which it re-arises in Spring. The amours of Adonis with Venus and Proserpine, the lovely goddesses of the upper and under worlds, or of Attis with Cybele, the blooming Earth-mother, are obvious vegetation-symbols; but they do not exclude the interpretation that Adonis (Adonai) may also figure as a Sun-god. The Zodiacal constellations of Aries and Taurus (to which I shall return presently) rule in heaven just when the Lamb and the Bull are in evidence on the earth; and the yearly sacrifice of those two animals and of the growing Corn for the good of mankind runs parallel with the drama of the sky, as it affects not only the said constellations but also Virgo (the Earth-mother who bears the sheaf of corn in her hand).

I shall therefore continue (in the next chapter) to point out these astronomical references—which are full of significance and poetry; but with a recommendation at the same time to the reader not to forget the poetry and significance of the terrestrial interpretations.

Between Christmas Day and Easter there are several minor festivals or holy days—such as the 28th December (the Massacre of the Innocents), the 6th January (the Epiphany), the 2nd February (Candlemas (1) Day), the period of Lent (German Lenz, the Spring), the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin, and so forth—which have been commonly celebrated in the pagan cults before Christianity, and in which elements of Star and Nature worship can be traced; but to dwell on all these would take too long; so let us pass at once to the period of Easter itself.

(1) This festival of the Purification of the Virgin corresponds
with the old Roman festival of Juno Februata (i. e. purified) which was
held in the last month (February) of the Roman year, and which included
a candle procession of Ceres, searching for Proserpine. (F. Nork, Der
Mystagog.)

Jadi...bukan sosok JESUS/NABI JESUS/NABI ISA nya yang FIKTIF...tapi atribut atribut yang disematkan terhadap diri beliow lah yang FIKTIF....atribut PAGANISME sudah disematkan pada sosok NABI MULIA ini...dan ini yang perlu di KLARIFIKASI, biar semuah nyaho....kalo sudah dijeplakin masih pada ndablek, ya terserah..EGP. emang kalian sudah kadong sesat...bangga akan kesesatan..silahkan sajah.

Hayoohh....JAGOAN RAMAYANA...maju lagi sinih...kita bahas bab ini dulu...

2. Tanggal Kelahiran
-Yesus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Mithra ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Osiris ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Baachus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember

As to Krishna, the Indian god, the points of agreement with the general divine career indicated above are too salient to be overlooked, and too numerous to be fully recorded. He also was born of a Virgin (Devaki) and in a Cave, (1) and his birth announced by a Star

ane kasian lihat ente mang..

ane sebut ini dulu deh.

2. Tanggal Kelahiran
-Yesus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Mithra ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Osiris ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Baachus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember

dari link ente.
Mithra.
(1) The birthfeast of Mithra was held in Rome on the 8th day
before the Kalends of January, being also the day of the Circassian
games, which were sacred to the Sun. (See F. Nork, Der Mystagog,
Leipzig.)

== hitungannya gimana kok bisa 8 hari sebelum januari jatuh di tanggal 25? tolong mang mungkin pakai otak kuli kapal bisa lebih akurat hitungannya hahahaha..

osiris

Osiris was born (Plutarch tells us) on the 361st day of the year, say the 27th December.

== terbukti ente fitnah! mana tanggal 25 desember??

bacchus.

==dimana tanggal pasti lahir baachus??

ane kasih tau ya kalau link ente itu sampah!

As to Krishna, the Indian god, the points of agreement with the general divine career indicated above are too salient to be overlooked, and too numerous to be fully recorded. He also was born of a Virgin (Devaki) and in a Cave, (1) and his birth announced by a Star

ane kasih tau ya.. Krisna itu anak ke 8!! gimana bisa disebut perawan??? dia lahir di penjara!! gimana bisa di sebut di gua??

Birth

Krishna Carried Across the River
According to Bhagavata Purana, Krishna was born without a sexual union, but by divine "mental transmission" from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki.

Based on scriptural details and astrological calculations the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[49] is 19 July 3228 BCE and departed on 3102 BCE. Krishna belonged to the Vrishni clan of Yadavas from Mathura,[50] and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

== ingat mang. tanggal 25 desember hanyalah sebuah hari peringatan! karena ada yang merayakan tanggal 6 januari seperti gereja ortodok.

dan tanggal 25 desember itu ada dasar hitungannya! ntar ane hitungin lain kali.

Lhooo lhoooo...kagak dibaca yang ini pak..??

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

II. SOLAR MYTHS AND CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS


..... Let me give a few brief examples.

Mithra was born in a cave, and on the 25th December. (1) He was born of a Virgin. (2) He traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men.

Mithra dilahirkan di sebuah gua, pada tanggal 25 Desember. (1) Dia dilahirkan oleh seorang Perawan. (2) Dia melakukan perjalanan jauh sebagai seorang Guru dan sebagai PENERANG (menerangi) manusia.

He had twelve companions or disciples (the twelve months). He was buried in a tomb, from which however he rose again; and his resurrection was celebrated yearly with great rejoicings. He was called Savior and Mediator, and sometimes figured as a Lamb; and sacramental feasts in remembrance of him were held by his followers.

Dia mempunyai 12 Murid(melambangkan 12 bulan). Dia dikubur dala sebuah kuburan berbentuk goa (Tomb), yang mana dia bangkit lagi; dan kebangkitannya diperingati tiap tahun dengan penuh sukacita. Dia disebut sebagai PENYELAMAT dan PERANTARA, dan kadangkala difigurkan sebagai seekor lembu; peringatan sakramen untuk mengenang dia diperingati oleh para pengikutnya.

2. Tanggal Kelahiran
-Yesus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Mithra ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Osiris ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Baachus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember

Lhaa...cuman beda 2 hari ....pan penulis buku itupun sudah menulis kaya gini..

bla bla bla..

Ahhh yang benerrrr....makanya jalan jalan pak...jangan cuman maen di SITUS NUSANTARA....he he he..

http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html

Dionysus: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days

by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S



The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Iacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Only Begotten Son" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Nooo...liat yang saya tebelin miringin garis bawah.....Baachuss gitu lhooo...wkwkwkwk

In studying religion and mythology, it is wise at to keep in mind that in the ancient world many gods were confounded and compounded, deliberately or otherwise. Some were even considered interchangeable, such as the Egyptian gods Osiris, Horus and Ra. In this regard, ancient Greek historian Plutarch (35, 364E) states, "Osiris is identical with Dionysus," the Greek son of God. Dionysus, also known as Bacchus or Iacchus, is likewise identified with the god Aion and referred to as "Zeus Sabazius" in other traditions. (Graves, 335) Hence, we would expect him to share at least some of all these gods' attributes, including being born of a virgin at the winter solstice (Aion), and dying and rising from the dead (Osiris).

"Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity."
Moreover, in Seven Books Against the Heathen (3.33), early Christian writer Arnobius (284-305) remarks that the Pagans "maintain that Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity" and "the sun is also Bacchus and Apollo." (Roberts, VI, 472-3) We would expect, therefore, Dionysus's attributes to reflect solar mythology as well.

Jangan marah dan benci sama mang odoy.....artikel diatas bukan ditulis sama KYai atow Ulama....lahhh mana tau beliow beliow ini masalah beginian....wkwkwkwk....

Lhaa...pan dari mari cuyy...

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

II. SOLAR MYTHS AND CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS



....As to Krishna, the Indian god, the points of agreement with the general divine career indicated above are too salient to be overlooked, and too numerous to be fully recorded. He also was born of a Virgin (Devaki) and in a Cave, (1) and his birth announced by a Star. It was sought to destroy him, and for that purpose a massacre of infants was ordered. Everywhere he performed miracles, raising the dead, healing lepers, and the deaf and the blind, and championing the poor and oppressed. He had a beloved disciple, Arjuna, (cf. John) before whom he was transfigured. (2) His death is differently related—as being shot by an arrow, or crucified on a tree. He descended into hell; and rose again from the dead, ascending into heaven in the sight of many people. He will return at the last day to be the judge of the quick and the dead....

Tuhh kannn....mirip dongeng yang disematkan ke Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth....hi hi hi....

Yupp...proses kelahiran Pak Krisna ini mirip proses kelahiran Nabi Yesus versi Bible....he he he...dihamili oleh roh kardus....wkwkwkwk

Tetep aja kagak kena....Yesus lahir di ahir Musim Panas sekitar bulan Sept-Oktober....dimana BUAH KURMA pas lagi mateng matengnya...maren saya ngalami sendiri ketika jalan jalan di Mesir maupun di Israel dan melihat Kebun Korma di saat bulan tersebut emang lagi merah merahnya...mateng.

Itungan PAGAN...??? wkwkwkwk

hayooo...maju lagi ahhh ...RAMAYANA SANG JAGOAN....

ramayana wrote:

Lhooo lhoooo...kagak dibaca yang ini pak..??

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

II. SOLAR MYTHS AND CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS


..... Let me give a few brief examples.

Mithra was born in a cave, and on the 25th December. (1) He was born of a Virgin. (2) He traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men.

Mithra dilahirkan di sebuah gua, pada tanggal 25 Desember. (1) Dia dilahirkan oleh seorang Perawan. (2) Dia melakukan perjalanan jauh sebagai seorang Guru dan sebagai PENERANG (menerangi) manusia.

He had twelve companions or disciples (the twelve months). He was buried in a tomb, from which however he rose again; and his resurrection was celebrated yearly with great rejoicings. He was called Savior and Mediator, and sometimes figured as a Lamb; and sacramental feasts in remembrance of him were held by his followers.

Dia mempunyai 12 Murid(melambangkan 12 bulan). Dia dikubur dala sebuah kuburan berbentuk goa (Tomb), yang mana dia bangkit lagi; dan kebangkitannya diperingati tiap tahun dengan penuh sukacita. Dia disebut sebagai PENYELAMAT dan PERANTARA, dan kadangkala difigurkan sebagai seekor lembu; peringatan sakramen untuk mengenang dia diperingati oleh para pengikutnya.

lho. ga dibaca ini pak?

Mithra.
(1) The birthfeast of Mithra was held in Rome on the 8th day
before the Kalends of January, being also the day of the Circassian
games, which were sacred to the Sun. (See F. Nork, Der Mystagog,
Leipzig.)

== ane kan minta hitungannya??

kalau ente bisa mikir ya..

ane kasih tambah..

Rituals and worship

According to M.J.Vermaseren, the Mithraic New Year and the birthday of Mithras was on December 25.[53][54] However, Beck disagrees strongly.[55] Clauss states: "the Mithraic Mysteries had no public ceremonies of its own. The festival of natalis Invicti [Birth of the Unconquerable (Sun)], held on 25 December, was a general festival of the Sun, and by no means specific to the Mysteries of Mithras

juga ini..

The Romans themselves regarded the mysteries as having Persian or Zoroastrian sources. Since the early 1970s, however, the dominant scholarship has noted dissimilarities between Persian Mithra-worship and the Roman Mithraic mysteries, and the mysteries of Mithras are now generally seen as a distinct product of the Roman Imperial religious world.[4] In this context, Mithraism has sometimes been viewed as a rival of early Christianity.[color=red]n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras

jadi hari kelahiran mithra ini juga ga jelas.


juga ada ini..

Mithras is depicted as being born from a rock. He is shown as emerging from a rock, already in his youth, with a dagger in one hand and a torch in the other. He is nude, is wearing a Phrygian cap and is holding his legs together

selain itu..

While Mithra is not the divinity of the Sun in Zoroastrian scripture (or in Indian scripture either), this being the role of Hvare.khshaeta (literally "radiant Sun", whence also Middle Persian Khorshed for the Sun), in Zoroastrian/Iranian tradition, Mithra became the divinity of the Sun. How, when or why this occurred is uncertain, but is commonly attributed to a conflation with Babylonian Shamash, who – in addition to being a Sun god – was a judicial figure like Mithra. In the Hellenistic era (i.e., in Seleucid and Parthian times), Mithra also seems to have been conflated with Apollo, who – like Mithra – was an all-seeing divinity of the truth.


mithra bukan dewa matahari di kitab suci zoroastrian. hanya secara tradisi dikaitkan dengan matahari!
apalagi kemudian oleh romawi mitras dipakai sebagai penanding agama kristen. jadi mikir.. kisah mitras yang niru kristen! bukan kristen yang niru pagan hahahaha..

jadi orang romawilah yang kemudian mengaitkan mithra dengan festival solstice day.

wong kelahiran mitra aja ga jelas kok. ini lahir dari batu atau dari perawan? hahahahaha..

ada yang nulis ini..

2. Tanggal Kelahiran
-Yesus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Mithra ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Osiris ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Baachus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember

ane bilang fitnah.. terus jawabnya ini..

Lhaa...cuman beda 2 hari ....pan penulis buku itupun sudah menulis kaya gini..

(1) They were born on or very near our Christmas Day.

(2) They were born of a Virgin-Mother.

(3) And in a Cave or Underground Chamber.

(4) They led a life of toil for Mankind.

(5) And were called by the names of Light-bringer, Healer, Mediator, Savior, Deliverer.

(6) They were however vanquished by the Powers of Darkness.

(7) And descended into Hell or the Underworld.

(8) They rose again from the dead, and became the pioneers of mankind to the Heavenly world.

(9) They founded Communions of Saints, and Churches into which disciples were received by Baptism.

(10) And they were commemorated by Eucharistic meals.

fitnah ga ngaku hahahaha..

Ahhh yang benerrrr....makanya jalan jalan pak...jangan cuman maen di SITUS NUSANTARA....he he he..

http://www.truthbeknown.com/dionysus.html

Dionysus: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Killed and Resurrected after Three Days

by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S



The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Iacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Only Begotten Son" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Nooo...liat yang saya tebelin miringin garis bawah.....Baachuss gitu lhooo...wkwkwkwk

In studying religion and mythology, it is wise at to keep in mind that in the ancient world many gods were confounded and compounded, deliberately or otherwise. Some were even considered interchangeable, such as the Egyptian gods Osiris, Horus and Ra. In this regard, ancient Greek historian Plutarch (35, 364E) states, "Osiris is identical with Dionysus," the Greek son of God. Dionysus, also known as Bacchus or Iacchus, is likewise identified with the god Aion and referred to as "Zeus Sabazius" in other traditions. (Graves, 335) Hence, we would expect him to share at least some of all these gods' attributes, including being born of a virgin at the winter solstice (Aion), and dying and rising from the dead (Osiris).

"Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity."
Moreover, in Seven Books Against the Heathen (3.33), early Christian writer Arnobius (284-305) remarks that the Pagans "maintain that Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity" and "the sun is also Bacchus and Apollo." (Roberts, VI, 472-3) We would expect, therefore, Dionysus's attributes to reflect solar mythology as well.

Jangan marah dan benci sama mang odoy.....artikel diatas bukan ditulis sama KYai atow Ulama....lahhh mana tau beliow beliow ini masalah beginian....wkwkwkwk....

ente punya otak kan pak?

Dionysus pron.: /daɪ.əˈnaɪsəs/ dy-ə-NY-səs (Ancient Greek: Διόνυσος, Dionysos) was the god of the grape harvest, winemaking and wine, of ritual madness and ecstasy in Greek mythology. His name in Linear B tablets shows he was worshipped from c. 1500—1100 BC by Mycenean Greeks: other traces of Dionysian-type cult have been found in ancient Minoan Crete.[

He was also known as Bacchus (pron.: /ˈbækəs/ or /ˈbɑːkəs/; Greek: Βάκχος, Bakkhos), the name adopted by the Romans[11] and the frenzy he induces, bakkheia. His thyrsus is sometimes wound with ivy and dripping with honey. It is a beneficent wand but also a weapon, and can be used to destroy those who oppose his cult and the freedoms he represents. He is also the Liberator (Eleutherios), whose wine, music and ecstatic dance frees his followers from self-conscious fear and care, and subverts the oppressive restraints of the powerful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus

seperti mitra!baachus ini adalah adopsi romawi dari dionysus! gimana bisa dewa yg lahir sebelum ada kalender bisa di sebut lahir tanggal 25 desember?? dionysus itu ada sejak 1500-1100 BC!! bisa mikir pak?

juga dari link ente.. pertama nyebut dia dewa anggur!! krn dia asalnya dari mitos yunani
The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus

dibawahnya nyebut..

"Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity."

ini ga mutu bener!! sebutkan dimana ada dewa matahari juga jadi dewa anggur!!
dionysus dari dewa wine oleh yunani ditarik jadi dewa matahari oleh romawi hahahahaha. naik pangkat!

berarti baccus ama mitra sama dong..

Lhaa...pan dari mari cuyy...

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm

II. SOLAR MYTHS AND CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS



....As to Krishna, the Indian god, the points of agreement with the general divine career indicated above are too salient to be overlooked, and too numerous to be fully recorded. He also was born of a Virgin (Devaki) and in a Cave, (1) and his birth announced by a Star. It was sought to destroy him, and for that purpose a massacre of infants was ordered. Everywhere he performed miracles, raising the dead, healing lepers, and the deaf and the blind, and championing the poor and oppressed. He had a beloved disciple, Arjuna, (cf. John) before whom he was transfigured. (2) His death is differently related—as being shot by an arrow, or crucified on a tree. He descended into hell; and rose again from the dead, ascending into heaven in the sight of many people. He will return at the last day to be the judge of the quick and the dead....

Tuhh kannn....mirip dongeng yang disematkan ke Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth....hi hi hi....

makanya mang ane bilang apa. sumber ga jelas dan salah ente pakai! otak dipakai mang!!

udah jelas kresna anak ke 8 gimana bisa perawan???? ente bisa jelaskan?????

pakai sumber apapun, otak dipakai! udah jelas ga masuk akal masih aja bangga ama link ente hahahahaha..

otak dipakai mang!!

sejak kapan Yesus lahir di gua mang??

ceritanya mirip kisah Isa bin maryam ya mang.. hahahahaha..

ane ga akan sebodoh ini. Ngaku Isa sama ama Yesus, tapi samain kisah kelahiran Yesus ama pagan! hahahahahaha..

hanya orang bodoh yang kayak gini.

Yupp...proses kelahiran Pak Krisna ini mirip proses kelahiran Nabi Yesus versi Bible....he he he...dihamili oleh roh kardus....wkwkwkwk

hahahahaha.. sama ga kayak ini?

Al anbiya 91
Dan (ingatlah kisah) Maryam yang telah memelihara kehormatannya, lalu Kami tiupkan ke dalam (tubuh)nya ruh dari Kami dan Kami jadikan dia dan anaknya tanda (kekuasaan Allah) yang besar bagi semesta alam.


al baqarah 87

Dan sesungguhnya Kami telah mendatangkan Al Kitab (Taurat) kepada Musa, dan Kami telah menyusulinya (berturut-turut) sesudah itu dengan rasul-rasul, dan telah Kami berikan bukti-bukti kebenaran (mu'jizat) kepada Isa putera Maryam dan Kami memperkuatnya dengan Ruhul Qudus 69 . Apakah setiap datang kepadamu seorang rasul membawa sesuatu (pelajaran) yang tidak sesuai dengan keinginanmu lalu kamu menyombong; maka beberapa orang (diantara mereka) kamu dustakan dan beberapa orang (yang lain) kamu bunuh?

== ente lihat ada angka 69 di quran? yang ane bold, merah ama garis bawah? siapa tau mata ente rabun!
ini penjelasannya.

69 Maksudnya: kejadian Isa a.s. adalah kejadian yang luar biasa, tanpa bapak, Yaitu dengan tiupan Ruhul Qudus oleh Jibril kepada diri Maryam. ini Termasuk mukjizat Isa a.s. menurut jumhur musafirin, bahwa Ruhul Qudus itu ialah Malaikat Jibril.

maryam hamil oleh Ruhul kudus yang ditiupkan jibril ke diri maryam!! hahahahahahaaha..

ente ngetawain alloh swt ya??
ente bilang ruh alloh swt itu roh kardus?? hahahahahahaha..

inilah kalau orang bodoh sok debat!

Tetep aja kagak kena....Yesus lahir di ahir Musim Panas sekitar bulan Sept-Oktober....dimana BUAH KURMA pas lagi mateng matengnya...maren saya ngalami sendiri ketika jalan jalan di Mesir maupun di Israel dan melihat Kebun Korma di saat bulan tersebut emang lagi merah merahnya...mateng.

Itungan PAGAN...??? wkwkwkwk

hayooo...maju lagi ahhh ...RAMAYANA SANG JAGOAN....

ntar ane buat trit sendiri aja. kita selesaikan fitnah ente dulu.

Lhaa emangg.... BIRTHFEAST,peringatan hari kelahiran Mas Mithra saat itu diperingati pada hari kedelapan sebelum Januari.....ini cuman masalah HARI "H" PERINGATAN.....sedangkan hari lahirnya sudah jelas 25 Desember..
Toh kalian memperingati Natal juga ada yang bulan Januari..
Yang ditekankandisini adalah kemiripan kemiripan antara MITRA dan YESUS....
Apakah ini sebuah KEBETULAN..??? atow KEKIBULAN...???
Kayaknya yang terakhir dehh...hik hiks hiks..

Saya gak komen dulu dah...mana LINK nya..??? ikuti aturan maen dongs....copas kagak nyantumin LINK asli...itu namanya pelanggaran...
Mana LINK nya... ??? baru saya komen..

Noo baca lagi yang saya gedein dan garis bawah......"PADA SAAT ATOW DEKAT DENGAN HARI KRISMAS KITA"....
Lhaa....tanggal 25 Desember aja kagak ada DASAR HUKUMNYA di Bible...
(ane pancing nih biar keluar itung itungannya...hiks hiks hiks...)

2. Tanggal Kelahiran
-Yesus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Mithra ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Osiris ---> Tanggal 25 Desember
-Baachus ---> Tanggal 25 Desember

Lhaa...cuman beda 2 hari ....pan penulis buku itupun sudah menulis kaya gini..

(1) They were born on or very near our Christmas Day.

Lha...emang pas Yesus lahir...KALENDER MASEHI sudah ada...??? he he he ...

http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masehi

Kalender Masehi adalah kalender yang mulai digunakan oleh umat Kristen awal. Mereka berusaha menetapkan tahun kelahiran Yesus atau Isa sebagai tahun permulaan (tahun 1). Namun untuk penghitungan tanggal dan bulan mereka mengambil kalender bangsa Romawi yang disebut kalender Julian (yang tidak akurat) yang telah dipakai sejak 45 SM, mereka hanya menetapkan tahun 1 untuk permulaan era ini. Perhitungan tanggal dan bulan pada Kalender Julian lalu disempurnakan lagi pada tahun pada tahun 1582 menjadi kalender Gregorian. Penanggalan ini kemudian digunakan secara luas di dunia untuk mempermudah komunikasi.

Kata Masehi (disingkat M) dan Sebelum Masehi (disingkat SM) berasal dari bahasa Arab (المسيح), yang berarti "yang membasuh," "mengusap" atau "membelai." (lihat pula Al-Masih)

Dalam bahasa Inggris penanggalan ini disebut "Anno Domini" / AD (dari bahasa Latin yang berarti "Tahun Tuhan kita") atau Common Era / CE (Era Umum) untuk era Masehi, dan "Before Christ" / BC (sebelum [kelahiran] Kristus) atau Before Common Era / BCE (Sebelum Era Umum).

UMAT KRISTEN AWAL...
Emang pas Yesus lahir udah ada umat kristen awal..??
Hayoooo......

Namun untuk penghitungan tanggal dan bulan mereka mengambil kalender bangsa Romawi yang disebut kalender Julian (yang tidak akurat) yang telah dipakai sejak 45 SM, mereka hanya menetapkan tahun 1 untuk permulaan era ini.

yang lengkap dong kalo mo nge quote... nihh baca lagi..

"Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity."
Moreover, in Seven Books Against the Heathen (3.33), early Christian writer Arnobius (284-305) remarks that the Pagans "maintain that Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity" and "the sun is also Bacchus and Apollo." (Roberts, VI, 472-3) We would expect, therefore, Dionysus's attributes to reflect solar mythology as well.

"Baachus,Apollo, Matahari, adalah Satu Dewa"

Selain itu, didalam "Seven Book Against the Heathen/Tujuh Buku Melawan Kafir (3.33), Penulis Kristen Awal yaitu ARNOBIUS (284-305) mencatat bahwa Kaum Pagan "Mempertahankan keyakinan bahwa Baachus,Apollo,Matahari, adalah SATU DEWA" dan "Matahari juga adalah Baachus dan Apollo" (Roberts,VI.472-3). Kita mengharapkan, karenanya, Atribut atribut Dionysus juga mencerminkan mitos Matahari.

Coba baca lagi baik baik...jangan keburu nafsu..akhirnya kan jadi malu sendiri...
Yang menyatakan hal tersebut adalah PENULIS KRISTEN AWAL yaitu ARNOBIUS (284-305).

Nafa tengsin sama saya..??? he he he...

ramayana wrote:juga dari link ente.. pertama nyebut dia dewa anggur!! krn dia asalnya dari mitos yunani
The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus

dibawahnya nyebut..

"Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity."

ini ga mutu bener!! sebutkan dimana ada dewa matahari juga jadi dewa anggur!!
dionysus dari dewa wine oleh yunani ditarik jadi dewa matahari oleh romawi hahahahaha. naik pangkat!

Plus Yesus dalam KHAYALAN umat kresten.....
Itu baru lengkep...hiks hiks hiks...

Ya mana SUMBER yang anda pake..??? ini diskusi ilmiah...kalo saya bawa sumber terus anda sanggah.....mana sumber sanggahan anda....jangan kaya si SEGOROWEDI deh kalo debat, cuman modal dengkul doang...

Ramayana wrote:ane kasih tau ya.. Krisna itu anak ke 8!! gimana bisa disebut perawan??? dia lahir di penjara!! gimana bisa di sebut di gua??

Birth

Krishna Carried Across the River
According to Bhagavata Purana, Krishna was born without a sexual union, but by divine "mental transmission" from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki. Based on scriptural details and astrological calculations the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[49] is 19 July 3228 BCE and departed on 3102 BCE. Krishna belonged to the Vrishni clan of Yadavas from Mathura,[50] and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

== ingat mang. tanggal 25 desember hanyalah sebuah hari peringatan! karena ada yang merayakan tanggal 6 januari seperti gereja ortodok.

dan tanggal 25 desember itu ada dasar hitungannya! ntar ane hitungin lain kali.

Mangkanya maen ke Betlehem pak...saya kan cuman nyeritain pengalaman Tour saya waktu kesana....kenapa bapak ngomel ngomel ke saya..???

Tuhh kan tambah ngaco....emang Nabi Isa versi Quran dilahirkan di goa...???
Ada datanya..?? mana saya pengen tau....

Yup.....jalan satu satunya adalah MENGINGKARI bahwa Nabi Isa di Quran adalah Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth dalam Bible...walo kampret kampret Misionaris Iblis memakai dalih bahwa KEDUANYA ADALAH SAMA untuk menjerat Muslim Muslim KTP yang melarat yang rela menggadekan Iman Islamnya demi alasan MENYAMBUNG HIDUP.... he he he....

mang odoy wrote:
Kalow ISA di Quran bukan YESUS di Kitab Kanonik...

Ngapain..si BP dari Sarapanbubur MENJAWAB...!

Cuman MUSLIM atow KRISTEN MUNAFIK yang mengatakan bahwa Nabi Isa di Quran bukan Yesus di Kitab Kanonik..!!

Hayoohh...maju lagi sini ril....??? keknya udah punya cukup nyali nih.....

Lhaa...gak ada yang aneh dari ayat ayat diatas.....jangankan Isa binti Maryam....odoy surodoy aja prosesnya kaya gitu...semua manusia kaya gitu...
Apanya yang aneh...????

Benci sama Islam boleh...keki sama Muhammad sah sah aja...tapi tolong, itu WAWASAN nya di katrol dulu....jangan cuman maki maki, malah keliatan bodoh, masalah nyampenya ROH dari Allah kedalam Rahim Ibu, semua sama, tidak terbatas sama Isa binti Maryam aja....

ramayana wrote:

Lhaa emangg.... BIRTHFEAST,peringatan hari kelahiran Mas Mithra saat itu diperingati pada hari kedelapan sebelum Januari.....ini cuman masalah HARI "H" PERINGATAN.....sedangkan hari lahirnya sudah jelas 25 Desember..
Toh kalian memperingati Natal juga ada yang bulan Januari..
Yang ditekankandisini adalah kemiripan kemiripan antara MITRA dan YESUS....
Apakah ini sebuah KEBETULAN..??? atow KEKIBULAN...???
Kayaknya yang terakhir dehh...hik hiks hiks..

biasakan otak dipakai mikir mang.. 8 hari sebelum januari itu hari apa???? masalah hari H? itu kan jadi beda ama tuduhan ente!

mithra itu diadopsi romawi. jelas mitra awalnya bukan dewa matahari atau yang berhubungan dengan matahari. kalau kemudian di tarik ke 25 desember dan diberi pangkat atau kisah yang beda, terus dimana jelasnya tuduhan ente kristen niru pagan?? apalagi natal hanyalah peringatan.

dan dasar tanggal 25 itu ada referensinya.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html

sorry trit itu ga bisa di copas! ente lihat sana semua kemungkinan hari kelahiran di bahas. termasuk yang late desember.

ane pernah buat tulisan yang bisa persis tanggal 25 desember. tapi lupa ane nulis dimana. ane mau buat lagi masih males!! ente baca aja sekilas di link diatas.

kalau ada dasarnya apakah kibulan??

emang kalau di quran, kapan tgl lahir nabi Isa? kok mohamad dirayakan ya? emang lahir kapan nabi mohamad? hahahahahaha..

Kan udah diterangkan bahwasannya......itu artinya PERINGATAN KELAHIRAN....mirip Natal nya Yesus.....
Kenapa jadi terus ngotot...??? data sudah jelas, apalagi yang mau diungkit...

Sumber yang saya dapat yang ini ...

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Mithra: The Pagan Christ
by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock


(The following article is adapted from a chapter in Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled, as well as excerpts from other articles, such as "The Origins of Christianity" and "The ZEITGEIST Sourcebook.")

"Both Mithras and Christ were described variously as 'the Way,' 'the Truth,' 'the Light,' 'the Life,' 'the Word,' 'the Son of God,' 'the Good Shepherd.' The Christian litany to Jesus could easily be an allegorical litany to the sun-god. Mithras is often represented as carrying a lamb on his shoulders, just as Jesus is. Midnight services were found in both religions. The virgin mother...was easily merged with the virgin mother Mary. Petra, the sacred rock of Mithraism, became Peter, the foundation of the Christian Church."

Gerald Berry, Religions of the World

Mithra or Mitra is...worshipped as Itu (Mitra-Mitu-Itu) in every house of the Hindus in India. Itu (derivative of Mitu or Mitra) is considered as the Vegetation-deity. This Mithra or Mitra (Sun-God) is believed to be a Mediator between God and man, between the Sky and the Earth. It is said that Mithra or [the] Sun took birth in the Cave on December 25th. It is also the belief of the Christian world that Mithra or the Sun-God was born of [a] Virgin. He travelled far and wide. He has twelve satellites, which are taken as the Sun's disciples.... [The Sun's] great festivals are observed in the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox—Christmas and Easter. His symbol is the Lamb...."

Swami Prajnanananda, Christ the Saviour and Christ Myth

Because of its evident relationship to Christianity, special attention needs to be paid to the Persian/Roman religion of Mithraism. The worship of the Indo-Persian god Mithra dates back centuries to millennia preceding the common era. The god is found as "Mitra" in the Indian Vedic religion, which is over 3,500 years old, by conservative estimates. When the Iranians separated from their Indian brethren, Mitra became known as "Mithra" or "Mihr," as he is also called in Persian.

By around 1500 BCE, Mitra worship had made it to the Near East, in the Indian kingdom of the Mitanni, who at that time occupied Assyria. Mitra worship, however, was known also by that time as far west as the Hittite kingdom, only a few hundred miles east of the Mediterranean, as is evidenced by the Hittite-Mitanni tablets found at Bogaz-Köy in what is now Turkey. The gods of the Mitanni included Mitra, Varuna and Indra, all found in the Vedic texts.

dan seterusnya..... data di link itu....akan saya jadikan sumber...silahkan anda cari data lain, kita beradu data aja disini....he he he...

Jelas...si Penulis hanya berusaha MENYODORKAN 2 OPSI... pada bagian "ARGUMENT FOR A TISRI (SUKKOT) BIRTH...pada bagian nomer 3 "CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE"..... si penulis menjelaskan begini..

"The Catholic Church (in 336 AD) declared december 25th (on the Julian Calender) to be Yeshua's birthday in order to replace a Pagan Roman Holiday, Saturnalia.
Ironically, December 25th was a celebration ot the birthday of the sun god. The early church , in attempt to ged rid of the pagan holiday, declared December 25th to be the birthday of the son of god."

Tuh.,menurut pengakuan si penulis pun....penentuan tanggal 25 Desember baru diputuskan pada taun 336 Masehi, berarti setelah ada campur tangan dan dukungan si Constantine, salah satu sponsor utama dalam pembentukan agama Kristen ini. Sebelum taun tersebut, tidak ada perayaan ulang tahun Yesus pada tanggal 25 Desember, semuanya hanya berbau politik dan untuk kepentingan politik. Bapa bapa gereja emang demennya ngibulin umat.

Saya pegang argumen TISHRI (SUKKOT) BIRTH...kalo anda mau pegang argument LATE DECEMBER BIRTH...silahkan bawa kemari, kita adu argumen dari LINK yang anda kasih sendiri ke saya...

NATAL adalah RITUAL KEAGAMAAN...karena dalam peringatannya ada MISA NATAL.

Maulid Nabi Muhammad....hanya sekedar MENGENANG.....itupun pencetusnya adalah SULTAN SALAHUDIN AL AYUBI....kira kira taun 1100 Masehi ketika perang tiang jemuran yang ketiga sedang berlangsung....motivasinya hanya mengenang kelahiran sang Nabi untuk membangkitkan semangat juang umat Islam kala itu dalam menghadapi serangan kaum tiang jemuran....

dahh segitu dulu..sisanya saya sambung ntar..

terus ane nanya mang.. tanggal pastinya nabi lahir kapan? hehehehe

mang odoy wrote:
Saya gak komen dulu dah...mana LINK nya..??? ikuti aturan maen dongs....copas kagak nyantumin LINK asli...itu namanya pelanggaran...
Mana LINK nya... ??? baru saya komen..

ente kalau cerdas pasti tau walau ane ada ke delete dikit link nya

The Romans themselves regarded the mysteries as having Persian or Zoroastrian sources. Since the early 1970s, however, the dominant scholarship has noted dissimilarities between Persian Mithra-worship and the Roman Mithraic mysteries, and the mysteries of Mithras are now generally seen as a distinct product of the Roman Imperial religious world.[4] In this context, Mithraism has sometimes been viewed as a rival of early Christianity.[color=red]n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras

mestinya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras

sayang ente emang ga bisa mikir hahahaha..

ramayana wrote:
mithra bukan dewa matahari di kitab suci zoroastrian. hanya secara tradisi dikaitkan dengan matahari!

ramayana wrote:

apalagi kemudian oleh romawi mitras dipakai sebagai penanding agama kristen. jadi mikir.. kisah mitras yang niru kristen! bukan kristen yang niru pagan hahahaha..

ramayana wrote:
jadi orang romawilah yang kemudian mengaitkan mithra dengan festival solstice day

ramayana wrote:

wong kelahiran mitra aja ga jelas kok. ini lahir dari batu atau dari perawan? hahahahaha..

Kita liat terjemahannya aja dulu.....baru kita liat seberapa jauh anda mengerti hasil copasan anda...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras

The Mithraic Mysteries were a mystery religion practised in the Roman Empire from about the 1st to 4th centuries AD. The name of the Persian god Mithra, adapted into Greek as Mithras, was linked to a new and distinctive imagery. Writers of the Roman Empire period referred to this mystery religion by phrases which can be anglicized as Mysteries of Mithras or Mysteries of the Persians;[1][2] modern historians refer to it as Mithraism,[1] or sometimes Roman Mithraism.[3][4] The mysteries were popular in the Roman military.[5]

Misteri misteri tentang Dewa Mithra adalah sebuah agama misteri yang dipraktekan pada saat Kekaisaran Romawi dari kira kira abad ke-1 sampe dengan abad ke-4 Masehi. Nama Dewa Mithra dari Persia, diadopsi kedalam bahasa Yunani menjadi Mithras, dihubungkan ke sebuah perumpamaan/citra/tamsil yang khas. Para penulis pada jaman Kekaisaran Romawi merujuk ke agama misteri ini dengan ungkapan ungkapan yang bisa diterjemahkan kedalam bahasa Inggris sebagai Misteries of Mithras or Misteries of the Persian. Misteri misteri tersebut populer dikalangan Militer Romawi.

Worshippers of Mithras had a complex system of seven grades of initiation, with ritual meals. Initiates called themselves syndexioi, those "united by the handshake".[6] They met in underground temples (called mithraea), which survive in large numbers. The cult appears to have had its centre in Rome.[7]

Penyembahan terhadap dewa Mithras mempunyai sistem yang kompleks dari 7 inisiasi, dengan cara ritual makan . Inisiasi inisiasi tersebut dinamakan Syndexioi, yang mana "bersatu dengan berjabat tangan". Mereka bertemu di biara bawah tanah (dinamakan Mithraea), dalam jumlah yang cukup besar. Pusat Kelompok pemujaan tersebut nampaknya sudah ada di Roma.

The Romans themselves regarded the mysteries as having Persian or Zoroastrian sources. Since the early 1970s, however, the dominant scholarship has noted dissimilarities between Persian Mithra-worship and the Roman Mithraic mysteries, and the mysteries of Mithras are now generally seen as a distinct product of the Roman Imperial religious world.[4] In this context, Mithraism has sometimes been viewed as a rival of early Christianity.[12]

Kaum Romawi sendiri menganggap misteri misteri tersebut diambil dari sumber sumber Persia atow Zoroaster. Tetapi. sejak awal tahun 1970, para ilmuwan kebanyakan telah menemukan KETIDAKSAMAAN antara Penyembahan Dewa Mithra-Persia dan Misteri misteri mengenai Dewa Mithra-Romawi, dan misteri-misteri Mithras sekarang secara umum dianggap sebagai sebuah Produk yang berbeda dari dunia agama Kekaisaran Romawi. Dalam konteks ini, Mithraism terkadang dilihat sebagai saingan dari kaum Kristen awal.

Rituals and worship
According to M.J.Vermaseren, the Mithraic New Year and the birthday of Mithras was on December 25.[53][54] However, Beck disagrees strongly.[55] Clauss states: "the Mithraic Mysteries had no public ceremonies of its own. The festival of natalis Invicti [Birth of the Unconquerable (Sun)], held on 25 December, was a general festival of the Sun, and by no means specific to the Mysteries of Mithras

Ritual dan Upacara Penyembahan
Menurut MJ.M.J.Vermaseren, Tahun Baru agama penyembah Dewa Mithra dan hari lahir dewa Mithras adalah tanggal 25 Desember.(bukunya bisa dilihat disini.. http://books.google.com/books?id=iskUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA238#v=onepage&q&f=false )
Tetapi, Beck sangat tidak setuju dengan pendapat tersebut, dia menyatakan; " Misteri Mithras tidak mempunyai perayaan perayaan umum secara tersendiri. Festival Natalis Invicti ( Kelahiran dari Dewa Matahari yang tak terkalahkan), dilaksanakan pada tanggal 25 Desember, adalah sebuah festival umum dari penyembah Dewa Matahari, dan ini tidak berarti sepesifik ke Misteri Mithras.

Mithras is depicted as being born from a rock. He is shown as emerging from a rock, already in his youth, with a dagger in one hand and a torch in the other. He is nude, is wearing a Phrygian cap and is holding his legs together

Mithras digambarkan dilahirkan dari sebuah batu. Dia diperlihatkan sedang muncul dari sebuah batu,sudah pada saat dia muda, dengan sebuah pisau belati di tangan kanan dan sebuah obor ditangan kiri (silahkan lihat gambar di link tersebut). Dia telanjang, memakai sebuah penutup aurat Phrygian dan merapatkan kakinya.

While Mithra is not the divinity of the Sun in Zoroastrian scripture (or in Indian scripture either), this being the role of Hvare.khshaeta (literally "radiant Sun", whence also Middle Persian Khorshed for the Sun), in Zoroastrian/Iranian tradition, Mithra became the divinity of the Sun. How, when or why this occurred is uncertain, but is commonly attributed to a conflation with Babylonian Shamash, who – in addition to being a Sun god – was a judicial figure like Mithra. In the Hellenistic era (i.e., in Seleucid and Parthian times), Mithra also seems to have been conflated with Apollo, who – like Mithra – was an all-seeing divinity of the truth.

Sementara itu, Mithra bukanlah Dewa Matahari dalam Kitab suci agama Zoroaster (atow dalam Kitab Suci India juga), hal ini telah menjadi peranan dari Hvare.Khshaeta (secara tata bahasa yaitu "Matahari yang bersinar", juga Khorsed Persia Tengah untuk Matahari), dalam tradisi agama Zoroaster/Iran, Mithra menjadi Dewa Matahari. Bagaimana,kapan dan mengapa hal ini terjadi masih belum pasti, tapi hal ini secara umum diatributkan ke sebuah penggabungan dengan Shamash Babylonia, yang mana menjadi Dewa Matahari- sebuah figur yudisial seperti halnya Mithra. Dalam masa Hellenisme (contoh ; pada masa Seleucid dan Parthian) , Mitra juga nampaknya telah digabungkan dengan Dewa Apollo, yang mana seperti halnya Mithra - adalah Dewa Kebenaran.

Nahh...kalo dah diterjemahin kan enak, pemirsa yang di studio maupun di rumah bisa menyimak lebih asoyy...
Mari kita simak apa kata pak jagoan berikut ini...

Lhaa....kan yang dijadiin dasar dan sedang dibahas adalah DEWA MITHRAS versi Romawi....yang mana agama penyembah Dewa Mithra ini, sudah populer dijaman Yesus hidup sekalipun.....
Baca yang ini..

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Mithra in the Roman Empire

Subsequent to the military campaign of Alexander the Great in the fourth century BCE, Mithra became the "favorite deity" of Asia Minor. Christian writers Dr. Samuel Jackson and George W. Gilmore, editors of The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (VII, 420), remark:

"It was probably at this period, 250-100 b.c., that the Mithraic system of ritual and doctrine took the form which it afterward retained. Here it came into contact with the mysteries, of which there were many varieties, among which the most notable were those of Cybele."

Lebih lanjut pada saat pergerakan militer Alexander Agung pada abad ke-4 sebelum Masehi, Mithra menjadi "Dewa Pavorit" di Asia Minor. Penulis Kristen Dr. Samuel Jackson dan George W. Gilmore, editors dari The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (VII, 420), mencatat:

"Mungkin pada periode ini, 250-100 sebelum Masehi, sistem penyembahan Dewa Mithra dan doktrin doktrinnya terbentuk yang mana setelah ini terus dipertahankan. Jadilah terhubung ke Misteri misteri, yang mana dari sanalah banyak macamnya, diantara yang paling terkenal adalah Cybele"

According to the Roman historian Plutarch (c. 46-120 AD/CE), Mithraism began to be absorbed by the Romans during Pompey's military campaign against Cilician pirates around 70 BCE. The religion eventually migrated from Asia Minor through the soldiers, many of whom had been citizens of the region, into Rome and the far reaches of the Empire. Syrian merchants brought Mithraism to the major cities, such as Alexandria, Rome and Carthage, while captives carried it to the countryside. By the third century AD/CE Mithraism and its mysteries permeated the Roman Empire and extended from India to Scotland, with abundant monuments in numerous countries amounting to over 420 Mithraic sites so far discovered.

Menurut ahli sejarah Romawi,Plutarch (c. 46-120 Masehi), Agama penyembah dewa Mithra mulai diserap oleh Romawi selama pergerakan militer Pompey melawan para Pembajak Sicilia sekitar taun 70 sebelum Masehi. Agama tersebut pada akhirnya berimigrasi dari Asia Minor melalui para serdadu, yang mana banyak dari mereka menjadi Penduduk setempat, masuk ke Roma dan meluas ke seantora kekaisaran. Kaum pedagang Syria membawa agama Mithra ini ke kota kota besar seperti Alexandria, Roma dan Cartagena, sementara itu para tawanan membawa agama tersebut ke kampung kampung pinggiran. Menjelang/pada abad ke-3 Masehi, agama Mitra dan misterimisterinya menyebar keseluruh pelosok Kekaisaran ROmawi dan bertambah dari India ke Skonlandia, sejauh ini telah ditemukan monument monument di banyak negara dengan jumlah yang sangat banyak, sekitar lebih dari 420 situs situs penyembahan dewa Mithra.

Jadi...gak usah ngomongin Zoroaster...yang sedang kita bahas adalah agama penyembah Dewa Mithra Romawi, yang berpengaruh pada atribut atribut yang telah disematkan ke Nabi Yesus dari Nazareth. Baca lagi yang ini..
Menurut ahli sejarah Romawi,Plutarch (c. 46-120 Masehi), Agama penyembah dewa Mithra mulai diserap oleh Romawi selama pergerakan militer Pompey melawan para Pembajak Sicilia sekitar taun 70 sebelum Masehi.

Jadi.....Romawi duluan yang mempopulerkan sosok Dewa Mithra, kemudian Kristen mempopulerkan Dewa Yesus dengan atribut yang sama dengan Dewa Mithra...
Baca lagi yang ini pak...

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

"The evidence points to these motifs and elements being adopted into Christianity..."


Point point bukti untuk motif motif ini dan element element yang telah diadopsi kedalam ke Kristenan


Mithra has the following in common with the Jesus character:

* Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.
Mitra dilahirkan pada tanggal 25 Desember dari perawan Anahita

* The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
Sang Bayi dibungkus dengan sebuah Lampin, ditempatkan di sebuah Tempat Makan Ternak (Manger) dan dihadiri oleh Para Penggembala

* He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
Dia (Mithra) dikenal sebagai seorang Guru Pengembara dan Pemimpin

* He had 12 companions or "disciples."
Dia (Mithra) mempunyai 12 orang Murid.

* He performed miracles.
Dia (Mitra) berbuat banyak Mukjijat/keajaiban

* As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
Sebagai seoaragn Banteng Agung dari Dewa Matahari", Mithra mengorbankan dirinya untuk kedamaian Dunia.

* He ascended to heaven.
Dia (Mithra) dianggakt ke Sorga

* Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
Mitra dianggap sebagai "Sang Gembala yagn baik, jalan,kebenaran dan Cahaya, Sang Penebus,Sang Penyelamat, Sang Mesias

* His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Hari suci bagi Mithra adalah Sunday/Minggu, "Hari Tuan" ratusan tahun sebelum penampakan dari Yesus

* His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
Agamanya mempunyai acara EKARISTI atow "Acara Makan Malam Tuan"

* Mithraism emphasized baptism.
Agama Penyembah Mithra menekankan acara Pembapatisan

Nahh lhooo.....mewek mewekk dahhh....bilang aja pak...semua data diatas adalah SAMPAH.....biar Iman Kristen tetap subur kaya Pasutri usia remaja....

Yeee malah ketawa...nemu referensi baru seemprit dah sumringah...noo baca lagi diatas...kalo masih ngotot, Kristen duluan yang punya TRENDI terus ditiru oleh Romawi...takasih bocoran lagi nihhh...

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

1. Mithraism

“Spirit of Spirit, if it be your will,
give me over to immortal birth so that I may
be born again - and the sacred
spirit may breathe in me.”
Prayer to Mithras

Celebrating the light and fire caused from striking of flints is an ancient tradition. Mithra is said to be forced out of a rock, wearing the Phyrygian cap holding a dagger and a torch of light. Mithra's birth is celebrated on the Winter Solstice.

Mithraism was popular in the Roman Empire with many Emperors following, not just the populace. It had seven sacraments, the same as the Catholic Church, baptism, and communion with bread and water. The Eucharist hosts were signed with a cross, an ancient phallic symbol which originated in Egypt, and the Egyptian cross (the ankh) still shows the original form which included the female symbol.

”More important even than the Vedic and Zoroastrian influences, the Mithras cult had a strong impact on Christianity. Mithras was the son of Ormuzd, and as a god of light himself, he engaged the powers of darkness, Ahriman and his host, in a bitter struggle. Mithras triumphed and cast his adversaries into the nether world. Mithras, too, raised the dead and will find them at the end of time. He, too, will relegate the wicked to hell and establish the millennial kingdom. [...]

Drews, too, believes that it was the influence of Persian, notably Mithraic, thought which led to the gradual transformation of the human figure of Jesus into a Godhead. Robertson thinks that the rock-tomb resurrection of Jesus is a direct transference of Mithras' rock birth, and that Jesus also became a sun-god like Mithras, so that they share their birthday at the winter solstice. Robertson, Niemojewski, Volney and others assert that as son-god Jesus had twelve apostles representing the twelve houses of the zodiac.”

"Jesus Versus Christianity" by Alfred Reynolds (1993)1


http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

2. Paul and Mithraism

“St. Paul is attributed with the writing of 13 books in the Bible, 7 by himself and 6 by others in his name. He was born in Tarsus as "Saul" and adopted the Christian name of Paul after converting to what is now "Christianity". He was an early leader of the growing Christian churches around the Roman Empire, and the writings of St. Paul are the earliest existing Christian writings known to historians.”

"St Paul - History, Biblical Epistles, Gnosticism and Mithraism" by Vexen Crabtree (1999)

He mixed the Hellenic Christ theme with the Messiah theme of Judaism, and the result was the theology around the sacrificial nature that the Christ of Christianity has.

“Paul mistook the Jewish "Messiah" to mean the Hellenistic "Christ". This happened before anything was written down; it happened during Paul's conversations with people as he was working through what had happened. A messiah is a person who is a great leader who leads your people to freedom. The title was taken by Jews from Persian culture. A christ is a god-king who dies as an offering to some divine being as a sacrifice in return for prosperity, especially agricultural prosperity. Both are anointed with oil as a mystical, sexual rite.”

Christos (site down) or Jesus didn't exist (site down)

“It was in Tarsus that the Mysteries of Mithras had originated, so it would have been unthinkable that Paul would have been unaware of the remarkable similarities we have already explored between Christian doctrines and the teachings of Mithraism. [Footnote:] Tarsus was the capital of Cilicia, where, according to Plutarch [46-125CE], the Mithraic Mysteries were being practiced as early as 67BCE”

"The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy (1999) [Book Review]

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

3. Emperor Constantine officially fused Mithraism and Christianity

“During the 1st century BC, a cult of Mithra, made much progress in Rome, after enduring persecution, when some Emperors adopted the religion... Mithra became very popular among the Roman legionaries and later even among the Emperors. The worship of Mithra was first recognized by Emperor Aurelian and he instituted the cult of "Sol Invictus" or the Invincible Sun. Emperor Diocletian also a worshipper of Mithra, the Sun God, burned much of the Christian scriptures in 307 A.D.

This enabled Emperor Constantine to merge the cult of Mithra with that of Christianity that was developing much. He declared himself a Christian but at the same time maintained his ties to the Mithra cult. He retained the title "Pontifus Maximus" the high priest. On his coins were inscribed: "Sol Invicto comiti" which means, commited to the invincible sun. This new blend of the two faiths, he officially proclaimed as Christianity. Christianity spread all over the Roman Empire and Eastern Europe by massive persecution and brought an end to a variety of religions that flourished there. [...]

Until the fourth century, Mithra and Christianity were distinct but after Constantine, the two cults were blended to form the new faith that was to conquer most of the world.”

5. Sunday as the Day of Worship, and December 25th

“In 313 A.D., Emperor Constantine declared December 25th to be the birthday of Jesus (December 25th was prescribed earlier as the birthday of Mithra, by emperor Aurelian). Sabbath day, which is literally Saturday (as the Jews still maintain), became Sunday as it was the day of the Sun, another element from the Mithra worship.”

www.geocities.com/raqta24/christ.htm

“It may be mentioned here that the Greeks celebrated the birthday of their sun-god Apollo at the winter solstice. Another important point is the fact that the Christian Church abandoned the Jewish sabbath (contrary to the commandment of their God) in favour of the Mithraic day of the sun.”

"Jesus Versus Christianity" by Alfred Reynolds (1993)1

6. Conclusions

Mithraism and Judaism merged and became Christianity. Jesus, son of the Hebrew sky God, and Mithras, son of Ormuzd are both the same myth. The rituals of Christianity coincide with the earlier rituals of Mithraism, including the Eucharist and the Communion in great detail. The language used by Mithraism was the language used by Christians. St Paul as the first "Christian" bears much of the responsibility for merging the two in his preaching and teaching, and also comes from Tarsus, a major Mithraist center.

The idea of a sacrificed saviour is Mithraist, so is the symbolism of bulls, rams, sheep, the blood of a transformed saviour washing away sins and granting eternal life, the 7 sacraments, the banishing of an evil host from heaven, apocalyptic end of time when God/Ormuzd sends the wicked to hell and establishes peace. Roman Emperors, Mithraist then Christian, mixed the rituals and laws of both religions into one. Emperor Constantine established 25th of Dec, the birthdate of Mithras, to be the birthdate of Jesus too. The principal day of worship of the Jews, The Sabbath, was replaced by the Mithraistic Sun Day as the Christian holy day. The Catholic Church, based in Rome and founded on top of the most venerated Mithraist temple, wiped out all competing son-of-god religions within the Roman Empire, giving us modern literalist Christianity.

manttafff khaannnn.....inga inga...yang nulis diatas bukan dari kalangan Pesantren lhooo....

he he he....baru dapet referensi seemprit dari om Wiki aja ....sumringahnya dah setengah mokat...wkwkwkwk
baca lagi hasil buruan saya yang ini...

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Priority: Mithraism or Christianity?

It is obvious from the remarks of the Church fathers and from the literary and archaeological record that Mithraism in some form preceded Christianity by centuries. The fact is that there is no Christian archaeological evidence earlier than the earliest Roman Mithraic archaeological evidence and that the preponderance of evidence points to Christianity being formulated during the second century, not based on a "historical" personage of the early first century. As one important example, the canonical gospels as we have them do not show up clearly in the literary record until the end of the second century.

Mithra's pre-Christian roots are attested in the Vedic and Avestan texts, as well as by historians such as Herodotus (1.131) and Xenophon (Cyrop. viii. 5, 53 and c. iv. 24), among others. Nor is it likely that the Roman Mithras is not essentially the same as the Indian sun god Mitra and the Persian, Armenian and Phrygian Mithra in his major attributes, as well as some of his most pertinent rites.

Moreover, it is erroneously asserted that because Mithraism was a "mystery cult" it did not leave any written record. In reality, much evidence of Mithra worship has been destroyed, including not only monuments, iconography and other artifacts, but also numerous books by ancient authors. The existence of written evidence is indicated by the Egyptian cloth "manuscript" from the first century BCE called, "Mummy Funerary Inscription of the Priest of Mithras, Ornouphios, Son fo Artemis" or MS 247.

As previously noted, two of the ancient writers on Mithraism are Pallas, and Eubulus, the latter of whom, according to Jerome (Against Jovinianus, 2.14; Schaff 397), "wrote the history of Mithras in many volumes." Discussing Eubulus and Pallas, Porphyry too related that there were "several elaborate treatises setting forth the religion of Mithra." The writings of the early Church fathers themselves provide much evidence as to what Mithraism was all about, as do the archaeological artifacts stretching from India to Scotland.

These many written volumes doubtlessly contained much interesting information that was damaging to Christianity, such as the important correspondences between the "lives" of Mithra and Jesus, as well as identical symbols such as the cross, and rites such as baptism and the eucharist. In fact, Mithraism was so similar to Christianity that it gave fits to the early Church fathers, as it does to this day to apologists, who attempt both to deny the similarities and yet to claim that these (non-existent) correspondences were plagiarized by Mithraism from Christianity.

"Regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first."

Nevertheless, the god Mithra was revered for centuries prior to the Christian era, and the germane elements of Mithraism are known to have preceded Christianity by hundreds to thousands of years.

Thus, regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first, well established in the West decades before Christianity had any significant influence.

Mantafff khannnn...??? terjemahan belakangan...anda kan sudah ngerti bahasa inggris...baca dah yang diatas ntu.....

Jiahhh...mangkanya nyari referensi jangan setengah setengah....

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Mithra the 'Rock-Born'

Mithra's genesis out of a rock, analogous to the birth in caves of a number of gods—including Jesus in the apocryphal, non-canonical texts— was followed by his adoration by shepherds, another motif that found its way into the later Christianity. Regarding the birth in caves likewise common to pre-Christian gods, and present in the early legends of Jesus, Weigall relates (50):

...the cave shown at Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus was actually a rock shrine in which the god Tammuz or Adonis was worshipped, as the early Christian father Jerome tells us; and its adoption as the scene of the birth of our Lord was one of those frequent instances of the taking over by Christians of a pagan sacred site. The propriety of this appropriation was increased by the fact that the worship of a god in a cave was commonplace in paganism: Apollo, Cybele, Demeter, Herakles, Hermes, Mithra and Poseidon were all adored in caves; Hermes, the Greek Logos, being actually born of Maia in a cave, and Mithra being "rock-born."

As the "rock-born," Mithras was called "Theos ek Petras," or the "God from the Rock." As Weigall also relates:

Indeed, it may be that the reason of the Vatican hill at Rome being regarded as sacred to Peter, the Christian "Rock," was that it was already sacred to Mithra, for Mithraic remains have been found there.

Mithras was "the rock," or Peter, and was also "double-faced," like Janus the keyholder, likewise a prototype for the "apostle" Peter. Hence, when Jesus is made to say (in the apparent interpolation at Matthew 16:12) that the keys of the kingdom of heaven are given to "Peter" and that the Church is to be built upon "Peter," as a representative of Rome, he is usurping the authority of Mithraism, which was precisely headquartered on what became Vatican Hill.

"Mithraic remains on Vatican Hill are found underneath the later Christian edifices, which proves the Mithra cult was there first."

By the time the Christian hierarchy prevailed in Rome, Mithra had already been a popular cult, with pope, bishops, etc., and its doctrines were well established and widespread, reflecting a certain antiquity. Mithraic remains on Vatican Hill are found underneath the later Christian edifices, a fact that proves the Mithra cult was there first. In fact, while Mithraic ruins are abundant throughout the Roman Empire, beginning in the late first century AD/CE, "The earliest church remains, found in Dura-Europos, date only from around 230 CE."

Manttafff khannnn....???
Pokonya jangan hawatir...semua postingan RAMAYANA SANG JAGOAN...akan saya lumat abiss, walo nyicil, yang penting kebabat semua......

Gimana....???? masih melek...????
Maju terus wahai sang Jagoan.....supaya semua KE PAGANAN KRISTEN akan terungkap di tret ini....sedikit demi sedikit, sejengkal demi sejengkal...bahwa..

"KRISTEN HANYALAH TUNAS BARU DARI PAGANISME..!!!"

ane sih ga usah panjang panjang.

nih dari terjemahan ente..

==Misteri misteri tentang Dewa Mithra adalah sebuah agama misteri yang dipraktekan pada saat Kekaisaran Romawi dari kira kira abad ke-1 sampe dengan abad ke-4 Masehi. Nama Dewa Mithra dari Persia, diadopsi kedalam bahasa Yunani menjadi Mithras, dihubungkan ke sebuah perumpamaan/citra/tamsil yang khas.

Sementara itu, Mithra bukanlah Dewa Matahari dalam Kitab suci agama Zoroaster==

ane hanya nunjukkan kalau ga mungkin mitra ini lahir tanggal 25 desember. wong ini dewa comotan yang diambil romawi! jadi romawilah yang kemudian memberi kisah sendiri akan dewa ini. wong disebut di kitab aslinya aja bukan dewa matahari kok!!

jadi romawi merubah kisah asli dari dewa mitra ini.

ane ga usah panjang panjang..

Anahita was very popular and is one of the forms of the 'Great Goddess' which appears in many ancient eastern religions (such as the Syrian/Phoenician goddess Anath). She is associated with rivers and lakes, as the waters of birth. Anahita is sometimes regarded as the consort of Mithra

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/anahita.html

tolong mang di terjemahin.. hahahaahaha..

kisah kacau balau dipakai.

ente bilang tgl 25 desember ikut pagan. ane buktikan ada referensi Yesus lahir tgl tersebut.
lalu kenapa ente paksa?
kalau ada referensi atau dasar, kenapa ente maksa ke pagan melulu???

apalagi kisah pagan ente amburadul lagi hahahaha..

contoh yang ini..

3. He had 12 companions or disciples.

In the Persian version of the Mithra story, he has one disciple, Varuna. In the Roman version, he has two, Cautes and Cautopatres. The source for this claim seems to be an old carving of Mithra slaying a bull while 12 people watch on. That these 12 people are companions or disciples is not suggested, and besides, this carving dates to post-Christian times anyways, so if they WERE meant to be disciples of some sort, they were likely influenced by Christianity, not the other way around.

ternyata ga ada tuh mithra punya 12 murid!

http://www.kingdavid8.com/_full_article.php?id=77dc2106-6b98-11e1-b1f8-842b2b162e97

ada yang bagus mang..


http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-mithras-mythology/
silahkan dibaca hahahaha..

sekedar buat mikir mang.

winter soltice day itulah tgl 24 november-25 desember.
dan perayaan ini udah ada sejak romawi kuno! untuk menghormati baachus!

sedang mitra itu ada di awal abad! dan mitra kuno tentu aja ga tau tanggal lahirnya wong ga ada kalender. makanya dijadikan satu mungkin di perayaan. jadi kisah kelahiran mitra inipun palsu! rekaan romawi.

dan kalau tanggal mitra ini hanya rekaan dan buatan romawi, beda ama kisah Yesus. ada referensinya!!

ane nanya deh. mana referensi kalau mitra lahir tanggal 25? kan yang ada adalah penetapan. bukan kenyataan.

Sedang Yesus ada petunjuk dan fakta di ayat Alkitab sehingga tgl 25 desember bukan hal yang salah. Ini kata Injil lho.. yang dibenarkan quran! hahahaaha.. apa? Injil Q?? hahahahaha.

baca lagi diatas.. termasuk link ane.

ampe udah jelas dari batu tetapi mbulet ke kristen hahahaha..

kasian enta mang.. link ngawur ente bawa bawa..